The Solution vs Hoax equation

[audiomaker]

Since energy is the subject of these investigations, I wonder is there a consensus here on a definition (or perhaps definitions)?

There is a thread in the "New Theories" section that seeks a definition of "OverUnity" and "Free Energy".  It's pretty close to the top right now.

[TinselKoala]

@Audiomaker: Re Brady/Perendev: yes, the magnet motor machine in the video was investigated and the evidence is that it was not a self runner and accelerates because of the initial movement of the brake-shoe like things from further to closer in. I think that's on the PESWiki site somewhere; Sterling gave up on Brady some time ago even before he got arrested, I think. The problem with disproving the other machine, the one that he got sent to jail for, is either easier or more difficult, depending on your opinion.... because there simply is no machine. He made the whole thing up. Even the photo of the "genset" with Perendev on the side as a logo --- the exact photograph was found that he used and photoshopped his "perendev" onto it. The photo was of a legitimate diesel genset from a legit manufacturer that Brady simply copied and altered for his own use. The "testimonials" and the stories of installed units in hospitals and all of that.... not a word of it was true.

No time now for further discussion, will return later, thanks.

[audiomaker]

@Audiomaker: Re Brady/Perendev: yes, the magnet motor machine in the video was investigated and the evidence is that it was not a self runner and accelerates because of the initial movement of the brake-shoe like things from further to closer in. I think that's on the PESWiki site somewhere; Sterling gave up on Brady some time ago even before he got arrested, I think. The problem with disproving the other machine, the one that he got sent to jail for, is either easier or more difficult, depending on your opinion.... because there simply is no machine. He made the whole thing up. Even the photo of the "genset" with Perendev on the side as a logo --- the exact photograph was found that he used and photoshopped his "perendev" onto it. The photo was of a legitimate diesel genset from a legit manufacturer that Brady simply copied and altered for his own use. The "testimonials" and the stories of installed units in hospitals and all of that.... not a word of it was true.

No time now for further discussion, will return later, thanks.

Well no doubt that is pretty shady. I'm glad he was caught, and it does demonstrate that eventually some scrutiny will be applied to these machines.  I'm amazed (as I stated I would be), that someone would go through with it. He must have known don't you think?  Again, please forgive my ignorance of these events.

I'm also short on time, but I'll soon upload a couple more and also begin to start steering this topic towards what I think a solution might be (I suppose I'll have to further outline what I feel the problem is then).

So far, what I've learned is that there are more hoaxes out there than I would have imagined.  What I still cannot accept without more evidence is that they all are by default.

Thanks to all of you for your fascinating participation

[TinselKoala]

No, it's not quite that simple. They aren't all "hoaxes by default". There is a huge history of scientific theory and experimentation that rules out certain classes of phenomena. If the exhibited effect purports to do something that is ruled out, then the default position is that the claim isn't true, until it has been examined and that attempted disproofs have failed. There are several reasons for a claim not to be true, and I think that by far the most prevalent one is simple error. Innocent error, or not-so-innocent like the antigravity device I told you about above. The hoaxes seem to be multiplying lately, and the clear frauds are always around, if the rarest of the three categories.
You've got to look at what's technically called "face validity". Does it look like it could do what it says on the box? Does it have to violate any of the "rules that rule out" stuff like antigravity or reactionless propulsion or heat engines with no cold sink....
If someone says they have a Tesla-like device and it makes high voltage and careful examination of input-output shows a slight excess in output.... that could have "face validity". The cause is yet to be determined, but at least it "looks like" it could do what it says. On the other hand, someone shows you a couple of alligator clips and a few scraps of copper wire and a magnet, and shows the bulb lighting up brilliantly when he touches it to the clips. This has no face validity at all, anyone who knows anything about electricity knows that it's not possible to do that  by normal means. So that demo has no face validity. This is one criterion that can help to separate the real efforts from the hoaxes and frauds.
Sure, the most unexpected phenomena might look to have no face validity either but turn out to be real nevertheless... at which point the ideas of what is valid must change. But I'm talking about a cognitive heuristic, a shortcut, that doesn't always work... just most of the time.

[Tusk]

Nicely put TK. The discussion so far seems to have been reasonable with surprisingly little evidence of bias. In the interests of advancing the inquiry I would be delighted to submit my own device (the Paradox Engine) for scrutiny as a test case for this topic.

http://www.overunity.com/13102/the-paradox-engine/#.ULijnWfp5Qw

While not yet advanced to the stage of actually producing usable energy, the potential energy of the mass in motion may be used as a reference. I am prepared to answer any and all questions regarding the device and the theory behind it, thus providing a 'real world' test case for the issues that have been raised here. Since nobody but myself has any reason to believe in the viability of the device there can be no prior knowledge of the outcome, which circumstance should serve to restrict any personal bias to a minimum. It seems unlikely that many opportunities would arise wherein the inventor would put everything on the table (no patents or secrets) and make themselves available for interrogation on an open forum.

If the decision is made to proceed, perhaps the inquiry itself could take place on the PE thread, with the discussion and assessment of the investigative procedure itself being held here.