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V Gate Magnetic Config

Started by Shankopotamus, December 23, 2012, 08:58:08 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jdneilson

Similar, apart from the gap is bridged with an iron ferrite disk, the disk has cutouts where the sticking points would be, the disk keeps the flux lines tight along the first 11 points of the vgate and greatly improves the attraction of the stator bar magnets.  when the 12th "Sticky" part of the vgate is reached the gap reduces the power of the bar magnet and makes the field lines between the 12th stage loose and reduces the power at this point so less attraction to pull it back!  Very simple design.   33 Bar Magnets vs 3 compromised magnets.

Jdneilson

Will take a look at any comments tomorrow, must go to bed as I have work in the morning, Night all!

TinselKoala

Quote from: Jdneilson on November 21, 2013, 05:19:13 PM
I understand how magnetic fields work,

Apparently you do not, as the rest of this post indicates.

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I am using 3ds max for design and femm 4.2 for magnetic calculations.

You have great skills with your CAD package. Your drawings are very nice and clearly took a lot of work. You are to be congratulated for that much anyway. But any simulation package like femm is only as good as the assumptions that go into it. If you feed it garbage it will happily process that garbage into pretty packaged... garbage.

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I am looking at using bismuth as shielding although alkaline is a cheaper alternative but not as effective.  Dimagnetics basicly act like a mirror to magnetic forces, the forces cannot penetrate the surface and are reflected back.

And here you begin again to go wrong, as others have pointed out above. "Alkaline"? What??

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  As for the the bearings, using 2 ring magnets, the outer a NS and the inner SN and the repelling force sits the shaft central,

This much is correct and can work, as many before you, most notably the Steorn lads with their "plinth" Orbo motors have shown. But...

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magnets at both ends of the shaft, also repelling forces keep the shaft from being displaced. 

Again here is where you go wrong. One end of the shaft has to bear against a fixed surface, or the system needs to be actively stabilized by electromagnets, sensors and a feedback system. Steorn weren't able to overcome this (in spite of something like 14 or 20 millions of pounds of investment burn) and wound up having one end of their shafts fitted with a tiny ball that would bear against a hardened micrometer head, which also allowed the "in-out" or endplay adjustment to get the proper positioning of the concentric ring magnet bearings for good support.

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The vacuum is to remove air friction, the bearings to remove mechanical friction and the magnetic clutch so power can be transfered via the vacuum.

Nothing wrong there, except that the bearing system won't work the way you think it will. And of course... the air friction would be negligible compared to the great power you think you are going to get, so why go to the complexity and trouble of removing it.

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I'm not sure where I read that static charges can influence magnetic bearings, I believe it was an article regarding Earnshaws theorem.

Please keep looking, I'd like to see the article.
Funny that you should mention Earnshaw's Theorem, but you believe that you can suspend a shaft between two repelling magnets at the ends of the shaft. Earnshaw's Theorem tells us, among other things, that you cannot do this. (The "Levitron" spin-stabilized toy is a special case that doesn't disprove the theorem and requires incredibly precise adjustment to work properly.) Maybe a first, and simple, step for you would be to get yourself a shaft and some ring and button magnets and try it for yourself. You should be able to build a frame of sufficient strength and accuracy from commonly available materials (wooden "craft sticks" and Duco cement, for example), and you can use almost anything, like a wooden dowel, as a shaft.  If you can get your shaft to "float" stably between the end magnets.... please let me know right away; that much alone would be a highly significant result.

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Regarding the rotation of magnets in a repelling state, I will tap off the static at the bearings as a precaution, a fluorescent tube should be sufficient.

I still have no idea why you think there will be "static" in your system. Rotating magnets don't produce electrostatic charges on their own, and the current from electrostatic discharges is generally so weak that you can't detect the magnetic fields around them with ordinary equipment; neither will external magnets have much influence on normal electrostatic motors or generators, except by pulling on their metal parts.

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The original calloway vgate posted by roobert33 loses all its momentum in lifting the stator magnet. and any device that relies on mechanical intervention will hit the same hurdle.

That isn't why that one doesn't work, but it is certainly another loss in the system, that roobert had to overcome by adding power from outside. There are lots of other "Calloway vgate" versions that don't lift the stator like roobert's clever model does, though... and none of them work, either; they lose all their momentum because _there is nothing to replace it_.

Just so you know, I do have a little bit of experience with magnets, magnetic levitation, magnetic bearings,  rotating machines, and electrostatic generators and motors. I have practical experience from building and testing things, as well as a "fair" grounding in theory. I sure can't make drawings like yours, though! That's a skill I envy, and you should be able to put it to good use.
       
Good luck, keep thinking, and +please+ try to do some real "proof of principle" experimentation on your own. Getting a shaft to float between the end magnets would be a great start.

I'll post this for your amusement, although I've posted it before in various places.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVfw-TeJ9r4

Jdneilson

TinselKoala, It would appear that you too have a talent, The ability to pick and ridicule anyone on here that has an idea, judging from your replies to other posts you seem to have the ability and will to deter anyone from even attempting to create such devices, maybe you should seek employment with the nearest petro-chemical plant or energy supplier.  You evidently have a calling

Thanks to all the other people for suggestions and pointing me in the right direction.

conradelektro

Quote from: Jdneilson on November 22, 2013, 02:54:44 PM
TinselKoala, It would appear that you too have a talent, The ability to pick and ridicule anyone on here that has an idea, judging from your replies to other posts you seem to have the ability and will to deter anyone from even attempting to create such devices, maybe you should seek employment with the nearest petro-chemical plant or energy supplier.  You evidently have a calling

Thanks to all the other people for suggestions and pointing me in the right direction.

I want to defend TinselKoala because many people attack him for what he does.

TinselKoala has the great talent of looking through misconceptions and illusions and he even takes the time to read and to comment. All the good people who post happily misconceptions and illusions should be grateful, but they attack instead of thinking, measuring and learning.

What does this say about the attackers?

If you make extraordinary claims you have to accept criticism and questions! Is this so hard to understand? Every mentally sane person will demand proof. Therefore a claim without proof is an offence. If you make extraordinary claims without proof you offend the reader because you assume that the reader is stupid.

If you make an extraordinary claim you have to provide proof. The readers of your extraordinary claim do not have to prove that your claim is wrong. It is never possible to prove that some concept will NOT work, it has to be proven that it DOES work.

TinselKoala does not attack, he explains. He might be a bit cynical, but people who make these extraordinary (and mostly foolish claims) without proof really deserve some ridicule for turning the burden of proof around.

Be glad that TinselKoala is around and listens and replies. I myself have almost stopped replying to extraordinary claims because the "inventors" do not want to discuss their claim, they want to be right without proof.

Greetings, Conrad