Free Solid State/mechanical energy

[tao]

Through your combined efforts we will one day all be on the same sheet of music singing the same song, and what a song it shall be!!!

I have faith in your efforts!


Regards

Erfinder,

You have already given us so much... Yet we still have much to learn.

I only hope that our day of realizations come sooner than later... Of course, having you just tell us everything won't let us truely LEARN what we need to. So, I have to respect your desires to force us to learn ourselves.

[zepharim]

just testing to see if this post makes it to the page ...
i have been trying for some time and it never shows .. . if it does, ... uh
hi everyone,
dont have much time but ..

like ERFinder said, take a deep breath visualize and imagine everything moving and acting just as he says ... remember you are learning something new - it should seem foreign but feel right

realize that this is a process of reeducation and a totally different mindset ... for example, you may be a carpenter and have the formulai, preferred tools and process to achieve the works, but we are talking masonry here ... the knowledge you have may or may not aid, assist and work for you, but only once you know the process of what it means to work masonry,... will you be able to apply the skills and tools you have.  ... my apologize everyone, but if you have ever taken a physics course you learn the theory and fundamentals before you get to do the labs ... to understand the concept and theories you must listen, digest, ponder and ask questions and always restate/recapp/declare what you have learned even each lab - usually it is done in little chunks that are then compliled into one master conception/lab - what we have learned thus far ... it has been helping me.

What is it that truly defines the discovery process - ERFinder is showing us right now ... stop and listen - keep it simple ... dont overthink it and worry about physics - physics does not apply right now - only giving this topic our undivided attention to discuss and understand these conceptions first - then apply what we think is necessary when all is said and done... i believe that this is where we need to start as that has been posted several times already

- he has stated that we have already been given what we need to know, he said it is simple, so maybe just follow the leader and keep it as simple as possible - it has been very somple things that he has stated thus far - maybe that all there is to it ... lets state what we know from his teachings - dont forget - make this understanding yours so you know it! not just mere words.

look at what is being given and engage each thing one step at a time to understand this process in a digestable fashion- it sounded to simple for me to accept at first and i complicated things - but it is really this simple and this conversation and discovery could get there alot faster if we all talked about this beginning with what we have been given and know thus far in a simple chronological order - keep it simple for now as it sounds like it will get complicating enough to warrant such desire to do labs and ponder viable physics laws etc in the future.

So i will start it ... ERFinder stated that we need to understand a magnet first - according to ERFinders model and direction.
So, What do we know of about the Magnet field in question (not the ring model)?
See attached model - "the real magnet Field.jpg"

LEVEL 1:
-FIND:
  Simply identify and relate to the following nature and elements of a magnet according
  to ERFinders direction:
  * field motion
  * field nature
  * identify, define and describe the nature of the GIVEN elements - see below GIVENS

- GIVENS (the elements involved in this model):
  1. Flux
  2. Void
  3. Positive Charge (inward motion)
  4. Negative Discharge of Energy (outward motion)
  5. Fields
  6. Electricity
  7. direction/movement
  8. displacement
  9. vortexes
  10. equator

Anyone?
this is how we approach problem solving in all discovery processes (physics, science, health, etc) this process may aid us to stay on track and we can keep each other focused and organized and on the topic - maybe we'll get some better head way?

[barbosi]

Thank you all for sharing your opinions and knowledge. It is realy refreshing to know people are up for a debate. And mostly I have to thank everyone for not taking this debate emotinal, and explaining the way everyone see it.

Maximumgravity1, I understand you have some background in studying Leedskalnins. My self I could find to much on this topic, in fact I'll list here what I got so far:
- http://www.keelynet.com/leed.htm
- http://www.keelynet.com/unclass/magcurnt.txt
- http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Leedskalnin_Magnetic_Currents:Monsieur_Bonheur
- http://www.keelynet.com/interact/archive/00000377.htm
- http://www.keelynet.com/energy/emery.htm
- http://www3.sympatico.ca/slavek.krepelka/exper/magcur.htm
- http://www.leedskalnin.com/

Some of the links do not provide details on replication, anyway, this is the whole colection I got with certain relevance on the topic.

All replications I could find were using aluminum. Are these materials relevant?

http://www.keelynet.com/energy/emery.htm
This guy replicated the experiment with a steel bar, aluminum spools, and various gauged wires.  Not to be a wise-acre, but I would say this is proof of concept, and that the materials are not relevant.

Of interest from this article is Leedskanlin's book:

From Leedskalnins' Mineral, Vegetable and Animal life treatise:

"If the perpetual motion holder's North pole prong is put East. South pole pointing West, and then elevate the cross-bar's center up to tilt the South pole vertically hanging magnet, then the magnet will swing South and when the cross-bar's center is elevated up to North pole vertically hanging magnet, then the magnet will swing North.

The cross-bar's ability to swing the North and South pole magnets off its center will remain as long as the cross-bar is not disturbed. It has little power but it could be made stronger by making bigger dimensions.

From the above experiment you can see the perpetual motion holder can act as a living thing. It knows which way to swing each magnet. This shows if more magnets are added to a living thing then it can perform things it could not do before.

EDIT:
Now I got it. If the coils can even be removed, is clear the spool material is irelevant.
The reason I asked about the material the spool is made of and if is important, was based also om Erfinder's device which uses the aluminum core for the rotor. As it is  important for its qualities, I asked is in this case of Perpetual Motion Holder if aluminum may play its role as in Erfinder's device. As side dish, is having brass the same or similar qualities?

All the best,
b

[Charlie_V]

Tao,

Wouldn't disconnecting the coils from each other be akin to removing the coils in your scenario Charlie?

I guess what I'm saying is if you remove the coils completely (not just disconnect them).  Then once removed, you alter the flux path by taking the bar off the top of the U.  Will you lose the magnetic flux that was circulating in the U,I path?  I want to say it would leave regardless if the coils are there or not, but I'm not sure. 

Anyway, its not that important hehe. 

[Maximumgravity1]

Barbosi,
I too appreciate debate without emotional influx, as it leads to better understanding for all involved.  I know sometimes reading things on the internet can cause people's intentions to be misunderstood, and taken out of context, and I am glad you didn't misunderstand my intent.  So, having said that, if I appear blunt, don't take it personally, sometimes it takes the simple way of hearing your thoughts given back to you to make you realize it didn't sound like you intended - I know that is what it takes for me most times.  As Zepharim stated, keep it simple, and restate the known.

Anyway, I have found many variations of the links you posted above.  Another good, but very hard to decipher-the-message-of-the author site is:
http://www.coralcastlecode.com
This is a more visual approach to much of what is happening.  After I looked over the site for a few weeks, and read through most of the pages a dozen or so times, I really began to want explanations in words - not just pictures.  I found the links section quite helpful, and actually found many very fascinating tangents and side thoughts in looking through them.  One of particular interest ties back to the Royal Egyptian measurement system, which Erfinder seemed to overlap with much of his discussion of the length of the wire.

When I couldn't find much more Leedskalnin reference material, I found it helpful to begin searching for "Coral Castle".  This opened up some useful (and not so useful) areas.  Of course, I am by no means an expert on Leedskalnin, nor do I claim to understand anything more then his simplest of ideas, but I believe the most useful info I have found about him, has been in reading his own writings.  Even http://www.coralcastle.com has some limited, but useful info.  I will look through my links tonight and see if there is anything else I think might be especially helpful.

Anyway, to reiterate Zepharim, I think it is about the simplicity of the concepts that modern thought is overlooking.  As erfinder stated at the outset, his device is to teach basic concepts, nothing more.  As such, I think the "concept" part is the clues he is leaving in his wake of clues and trails.  In looking at Leedskalnin's  perpetual motion holder, I believe it is the concept at work that we are to derive from the lesson.  Why exactly is the iron core able to hold the "magnets" spinning in perpetual motion?  Why does removing the bar release the magnets, and allow work to be done?  Why does it store this ability indefinitely?  Tied to all of this seems to be the underlying "concept" that Leedskalnin himself was professing from the outset - it has to do with misconception of how "magnets" flow, what they are, and how they behave in given circumstances.

I think this is a clue:

In a car battery the North Pole magnets run out of positive terminal and South Pole magnets run out of negative terminal. Both kinds of magnets are running, one kind of magnets against the other kind, and are running in the same right-hand screw fashion.  By using the same whirling motion and running one kind of magnets against the other kind, they throw their own magnets from the wire in opposite directions. That is why if you put a magnet metal across the copper wire the one end is North Pole and the other end South Pole.

Here is another:

I think the batteries are not made right. Sometimes there is more of North
Pole magnets than there is South Pole magnets.  They should be equal. the same
as from generators which do not run the South Pole magnets in frame or base,
but run directly away the same as they run the North Pole magnets.


From the following experiment you will see that the battery is not balanced
right. Put the copper wire across the box, one end East, the other end West,
connect one lead a foot West from East end and the other lead with West end,
hang a magnet in spider web, put the magnet in same level with the copper
wire. Keep the copper wire end a little away from magnet?s North Pole, con-
nect East lead with positive terminal, tap the negative terminal several times
with the loose clip. and see what the magnet is doing. Change the terminal,
change the tapping, move the box and copper wire to the South Pole end, repeat
the same thing.  Then you will notice sometimes the copper wire end pushes
away the North Pole magnet, and sometimes it pulls it in and the same thing
happens with South Pole magnet, and sometimes it does nothing. So it shows the
battery is irregular.


Connect the leads with battery?s terminals to make a loop, keep the leads on
the same level with battery, drag a hanging magnet over the loop and the
connections between the battery?s terminals. You will see that one end of the
magnet keeps inside the loop, and the other outside, and the same thing
happens when the magnet crosses the connection between the terminals. This
experiment indicates that the North and South Pole magnet currents we not only
running from one terminal to the other, but are running around in an orbit and
are not only running one time around, but are running many times wound until
the North and South Pole individual magnets get thrown out of the wire by cen-
trifugal force, and by crowding. While the North and South Pole magnets were
in their own terminals they only possessed pushing power, the pulling power
they acquire only if the other kind of magnets are in front of them, like the
permanent magnets if you put the opposite magnet in front of it, then they
will hold together The same way you have done with the six inches long pieces
of copper and soft iron wire.


From the experiment with the car battery you can see the principle how
permanent magnets are made by North and South Pole individual magnet currents
running in a single wire from battery. How did the magnets get in there? As I
said in the beginning. the North and South Pole magnets they are the cosmic
force, they hold together this earth and everything on it. Some metals and
non-metals hove more of the magnets than others. The North and South Pole
magnets have the power to build up and take down, for instance in welding the
magnets take the Welding rod down and put it on the welding, in electroplating
they put one metal on the other, and if you burn a metal too much in an
electric furnace the metal will disappear in air.

I believe the importance of these statements can be seen in close study of the experiments Leedskalnin outlines.

The reason I asked about the material the spool is made of and if is important, was based also om Erfinder's device which uses the aluminum core for the rotor. As it is  important for its qualities, I asked is in this case of Perpetual Motion Holder if aluminum may play its role as in Erfinder's device. As side dish, is having brass the same or similar qualities?

All the best,
b

I too wondered this same thing, in comparing copper and aluminum.  I could be wrong, and I hope Erfinder will correct me if I am missing the point, but I think it is about the concept of what the Perpetual Motion Holder is doing.  I believe it could be made "better" or more effective with some improvements, but as it is (and as Leedskalnin did this in the same spirit as Erfinder - a simple demonstration of a concept) I believe the "concept" of how it works is more important then inderstanding the individual components.  I think back to his chocolate cake analogy - I believe this is to teach us the concepts of how to mix ingredients, and light the oven, not explain why a gas oven bakes more evenly then an electric one.  Once we know how to make a "basic" cake - ANY CAKE - then we will have the tools to make more elaborate cakes, ribs, and flamb?.  Right now we are getting bogged down in trying to determine if we should use semi-sweet chocolate or bakers chocolate.  I don't believe it matters.  The concept of "cake" is all that matters at the moment.