Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".

[synchro1]

The term self capacitance in connection with coils has always meant: "The capacitive component of a coil, which reduces its impedance at high frequencies and can lead to resonance and self-oscillation, is also called self-capacitance as well as stray or parasitic capacitance."There can be other meanings of self capacitance, some are here where I took the above quote too:
http://www.answers.com/topic/capacitance#Self-capacitance

Tesla bifilar's generate and store a self charge that's nearly twice the capacitance of an equal single wire solinoid. This charge eliminates any resistance to change in current direction in the coil, decreasing switch time and permiting smoother running at higher speeds.

Compass deflection between the two types of non charged coils would reveal the real difference between the two types of coils.

[MileHigh]

Synchro1:

This charge eliminates any resistance to change in current direction in the coil, decreasing switch time and permiting smoother running at higher speeds.

The basic operating principle of a coil is that applying a voltage to the coil will slowly induce current to flow in the coil.  The larger the coil the longer it takes the same applied voltage to induce current flow.  It's identical to spinning up a large and heavy flywheel mounted on very good bearings with your arms.  It's very hard to change the speed of the flywheel.

So the charge associated with the self-capacitance will not in fact eliminate any resistance to the current direction in the coil.  As we discussed in another thread, the self-capacitance of a coil is insignificant in comparison to the inductance of the coil and in the vast majority of cases you can simply ignore it.

My gut feeling is the Tesla series bifilar coil patent is being grossly misinterpreted on the free energy forums.  He states in the patent that he did the wiring like that because there were no high-voltage capacitors readily available.

My suggestion for those interested is to master the basics of inductors and capacitors and truly understand how they work in both the time domain and the frequency domain.   An inductor acts like an open circuit at high frequencies, a capacitor acts like a short circuit at high frequencies.  An inductor acts like a short circuit at low frequencies and a capacitor acts like an open circuit at low frequencies.  Those are the kinds of concepts that I suggest you focus on.

It's all up to you guys but I think that you are focusing too much energy on that Tesla bifilar pancake coil patent.  In the context of doing experiments on your bench right now, it's not significant.

Just my two cents.

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

As we discussed in another thread, the self-capacitance of a coil is insignificant in comparison to the inductance of the coil and in the vast majority of cases you can simply ignore it.

My gut feeling is the Tesla series bifilar coil patent is being grossly misinterpreted on the free energy forums.  He states in the patent that he did the wiring like that because there were no high-voltage capacitors readily available.

It's all up to you guys but I think that you are focusing too much energy on that Tesla bifilar pancake coil patent.  In the context of doing experiments on your bench right now, it's not significant.

Just my two cents.

"As we discussed in another thread, the self-capacitance of a coil is insignificant in comparison to the inductance of the coil and in the vast majority of cases you can simply ignore it."

You are ignoring other details. If we have 1 coil regular and one bifi, both of equal total number of turns, as we increase the number of turns on each, the capacitance of the normal coil becomes more insignificant because the more turns, the more voltage division of the total Vin, thus less voltage difference between each turn and adjacent turn. But the bifi, no matter how many turns you have, 1000 or even 1 million turns, every winding will be next to another winding that is 50% of Vin in reference to each other. This is not insignificant.  And this coil definitely fits into the 'vast minority' cases when it comes to coils. Look around. There arent any.

"My gut feeling is the Tesla series bifilar coil patent is being grossly misinterpreted on the free energy forums.

Maybe that is your gut feeling. My gut feeling is the opposite of yours. That doesnt make you or I wrong, yet. Lets continue and see what comes of it and decide in the end. 

"He states in the patent that he did the wiring like that because there were no high-voltage capacitors readily available."

Actually, he said they were too bulky and expensive, not that they were not available.

"It's all up to you guys but I think that you are focusing too much energy on that Tesla bifilar pancake coil patent.  In the context of doing experiments on your bench right now, it's not significant."

You seem to want to offer help with your knowledge in discovering fundamentals of these things. Why is this so insignificant? Once we actually see what we can see and gain real experience with it, then we will know for sure if it has any use or not. There is a lot of this and that about this coil configuration out there. So lets try and get it straight once and for all.

We cannot just throw a few numbers out there like 40 to 70% as if that covers it. The more turns each coil has, regular and bifi, the difference becomes more clear. Testing a tiny 100 microhenry coils, bifi and regular, there is not enough turns to signify a difference between the two coils.

We will see what comes of it here as we go along. We did take this subject out of the delayed lenz effect thread and someone started this one. So why suggest that we dont make use of it?

Mags

[fritz]

Some Example:

Let´s build an electromagnet with 100V operating voltage, DC, 5Watt DC losses if turned on.

current = power / voltage = 5W / 100V = 50mA

to achieve that we would need wire with DC resistance =  voltage/current = 100V / 50mA = 2000 Ohms.

The thing shouldn´t be too heavy - so we run for an AWG38 Wire.

Using some tool: http://www.cirris.com/testing/resistance/wire.html

we end up with 3033ft of AWG38 wire.

...thats about 15.000 turns on somewhat 1 1/2 inch bobin.

Lets make the coil with 2 wires side-by side and 7500 turns - and connect them in series.

We´ll probably end up with a few nanofarad distributed capacity - and would spare the external
rc in that situation.

This coil "trick" makes only sense in a certain impedance window.

[Farmhand]

Yes fritz, I agree, and for an electromagnet with a great many turns and a lot of self inductance if we want it to turn on fast (current to flow as quick as possible)
then we need to look at cancelling it's self inductance in order for it to turn on quicker. Wouldn't we ?
Also if the capacitance that cancels the self inductance is distributed it might cancel the self induction at a different rate, as it goes around kind of thing. 

I think i can see with my pulse motor that when the coils are near resonance the current can really flow.     At least it appears that way to me.


Cheers