Big try at gravity wheel

[MarkE]

Thanks for the drawing with numbers and stuff.

To communicate it is necessary to come to an understanding, you have your definitions, I get that, you have your methods, I get that, I have mine, I am trying to use yours but you are unwilling to try and use mine,,

I use definitions as they are commonly accepted in science and academia.  I do not invent "Mark definitions".  If you want to make up "Webby definitions" then the burden is on you to justify that your definitions are physically valid.  That's a LOT of work.  You are free to do that work.  You are also free to skip all that effort and simply use the commonly accepted definitions.  It's up to you.

Have you finished a complete analysis of a dual ZED?  You started making those statements with no due diligence,  only what you understand to be allowed and how you thought the ZED functioned.

You seem to suffer the misconception that it is up to me to prove that a combination of ordinary things behaves ordinarily.

Back on that note,, when I convert the filler into a pod, still using magic air, I have a change in required volume to go from start to buoyant lift, it is now down to 1\3  the total volume, and then 2\3 for lift, but the return is not the same, right now it looks like it will be a constant gradient down for the whole volume.  Is there something I should be careful of?  I am fine when things are all the same,, but this might not be.

You appear to be hung up on what I call the: "Miller Misconception" that air is responsible for buoyant force of any kind.  It is not.  For objects immersed in water, displaced water is responsible for buoyant force.

[MarkE]

Just a little clarification please.

Are you saying that if I do this test that the system will stop as soon as it hits 45 degrees?

Or will it continue on and eventually settle at 45 degrees,, after friction.

Because I have never had this setup stop after just 45 degrees of rotation, well maybe with really bad bearings.

EDIT:

I have had it stop after only 45 degrees of rotation but that was using another lever setup that was lifted by the initial rotation.

No I did not say that.  I said that 45 degrees is the rest position.  It is a pendulum.  If you had perfect frictionless bearings you could theoretically get it to swing from one side to the other.  Why?  Because it converts GPE into KE and back into GPE.  Now you can use that knowledge to try and devise an "air" transfer system for your cylinders that does likewise.  Or you can take the shortcut and realize that in the very best case, you could just place the payload weight on top of one cylinder, and do the work to lift the pair and then remove the weight and sink the cylinder as your cycle, or start at the top and do the cycle in reverse.  Either way, the best you could ever do is reduce the losses to a small value, and you would be stuck with something that never performs better than an electric hoist.

[TinselKoala]

Actually TK your response is my point.

I have a tendency to describe things, describe what I am thinking or playing with, you and MarkE and all the other well educated and talented people "define" things.

Ahhh... but it's not "my" definition, webby. If I have seen further (than you), it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.   

(And by the way, it is a result of many many observations of how the real world behaves, codified by consistent analysis of those observations and never disproven; no counterexamples exist.)

May I suggest that you spend a little time working through the problems sets in this book here:

http://excelhonour.com/free-vector-mechanics-for-engineers-statics-and-dynamics-free-pdf-download-8th-edition/

One or two of us have already done so.   

(Just kidding but you might want to take a quick glance at that textbook, which has been used and is still in use in various editions for many years in engineering classrooms all over the world, to  train the folks that design the bridges you drive over, the cars you drive over them in, the airplanes you fly in when you get to the airport, and even the computer keyboard you are typing upon. )

[MarkE]

I tried to get the book but am having issues with the download links,, I will try later, more information is usually a good thing.

To take advantage of the view from standing up high, one must be willing to look.

Are you now accepting that the system can transfer most of the stored potential into the second system?  that is what it sounds like to me so I thought I would ask instead of assume

It cannot by any of the means that you have proposed.  Since you have supposedly been describing actual hardware that you have measured and not hypothetical hardware I do not allow for anything that you have not described.

The easiest way to get from right to left or left to right is to spin the assembly around.  Of course then you are stuck with the problem of getting the payload weight up and down.  None of this shuffling fluids back and forth does anything but impair the efficiency.  They do not ope any opportunity for gaining efficiency over directly lifting the payload.  Nor do they offer any opportunity to violate the conservative nature of gravity.

[TinselKoala]

Webby, the book in the link is
Statics and Dynamics, Vector Mechanics for Engineers, by Beer and Johnston.
There are many links where it may be examined in its various editions, and it even has several of its "own" websites where you can look at individual chapters and work through problem sets. Just google "beer and johnston" and you will find whatever tiny bits or complete copies of old editions you need.


http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0073398136/information_center_view0/

The Beer/Johnston textbooks introduced significant pedagogical innovations into engineering mechanics teaching. The consistent, accurate problem-solving methodology gives your students the best opportunity to learn statics and dynamics. At the same time, the careful presentation of content, unmatched levels of accuracy, and attention to detail have made these texts the standard for excellence.

It is a classical fundamental textbook for engineers, usually given as a two semester course for advanced freshmen or sophomore engineering students. In various editions it has been in use for many years and is still used today, in engineering schools and universities all over the planet. It is a formidable textbook and contains many problems sets and solutions. Calculus is an absolute prerequisite for success with the courses using that textbook. It contains analyses of just about any and every mechanical system you can think of, broken down into the component parts.

I give it as an illustration of the kinds of problems and the problem solving methods that even "baby" engineers have to be able to deal with. Take a look, and then re-evaluate the credibility of some of the claims and problem solving methods we have seen that Travis's employees are apparently using.

(The full text of the combined Statics and Dynamics version is over 1300 pages long.)


(Sorry about the many edits....       )