Big try at gravity wheel

[MarkE]

Minnie, Marsing as to the videos: It is at best very foolish to declare new phenomena without first being careful to check that there really is something new going on.  Tom Miller took the time to film four videos before #5 where he kept repeating:  "Come on Archimedes!".

In order to get one or the other of the cups to ascend it is necessary to become positively buoyant.  Buoyancy is about force not energy.  The #5 video like the others demonstrates like the other videos that when it comes to buoyant force, it is as Archimedes' 2000 year old principle states: all about the equivalent weight of the displaced fluid volume.  Cement, sand, air, marbles, delicious and fun Jello(r) brand gelatine, etc:  If it displaces a given volume of water, then the surrounding water pushes back with a force equal to the weight of the displaced water mass, whether or not that displaced volume is much bigger than the actual amount of water in the vessel.

If it makes people feel better to think of Tom Miller as just badly misinformed about 2000 year old physics when he published those five videos, that's OK as long as no one ends up deceived by the blatant misrepresentations in those videos that they showed anything other than demonstrations of Archimedes' Principle.

Is there any kind of energy gain to be had introducing a piston into lifting objects using buoyancy?    That may all depend on what one thinks of as a gain.  If one is looking for a gain of more energy out of a cycle than goes in, sadly that has never happened.  We are still in the process of determining the details of Webby's example.  When we have those details we can see if it seems that Webby has discovered an exception.

[minnie]

  MarkE,
           do you agree that to get a benefit we have to see it on the first stroke, that is
    if our cylinders are identical,
                                               John.

[MarkE]

  MarkE,
           do you agree that to get a benefit we have to see it on the first stroke, that is
    if our cylinders are identical,
                                               John.

Minnie, no I do not agree.  An energy gain if there is one to be had could come in one part of a full cycle just as well as the next.  Only evaluation of a complete cycle determines how the accounts balance.  When Webby has offered a description complete enough to model a full cycle then we will see how the accounts settle.

[Marsing]

mark

i have no problem with video mark, video have done what it purpose,

i will tell your story that you told,

long ago, it was thought that metal aircraft would never be able to fly because metal is so much heavier than air. Today, aircraft weighing hundreds of tons fly on a daily basis.

what do you say markE ?

[LibreEnergia]

What is does do is to give you the possibility to control you lift,  by pressure control you can determine at what ratio the lift takes place, bi-directionally. in a non-linear fashion.  Because of the bi-directional property, the need for a dual setup is without doubt the best solution to handle this energy exchange and the rest is history

What you or anyone else who claims this device can work needs to do is prove this 'non linear' behaviour is true with respect to ENERGY not just forces.

Forces during the stroke displacement could be any kind of function you like depending on the geometry or inner workings of the device. However until you account for the sum of all energies  potential and  kinetic you don't come close to proving your case.

None of the mathematical analysis presented so far is adequate.  Analysing the device as a series of static steps shows no energy excess.  Such simplified analysis however is inadequate to prove or disprove the 'non-linearity' of the system.

It would be possible to completely model this device with some accuracy using computational fluid dynamics. Personally, I think it is pointless to do that. All it will show is the device does not work.  CFD code has as a stating point that energy is conserved and seeks to solve a system equations with that goal in mind.

As such, promoters of the device would need to be able to the exact point in the cycle and say 'see... this is where the excess energy is produced' and be able to explain just where this extra energy is manifested from.