Big try at gravity wheel

[Red_Sunset]

>>    MarkE = Mark Euthanasius  ??  <<

[MarkE]

MarkE,
1) Show any evidence of any force other than gravity operating within the device?  * No

2) Show any evidence that gravity behaves non-conservatively?  * Yes & No,
   **  The multi-layer piston changes the playing field because the piston makes an un-natural parameter (property) change at the midpoint cycle, so gravity reacts in response to those changes, not to the symmetry of the half cycle that preceded it.
This creates the appearance of non-conservation, but it all reactions are normal accepted physics behaviors.
No magic takes place or known physic's rules are broken in the process. Although the end result makes you believe different

3) Show any evidence that any closed cycle employed within the device generates a net energy gain?  * Yes

Your questions were answered already in a previous post that gave you a high level working overview of the ZED.  Re-read it and you might see more clarity?  Nothing will help you until you disassemble the set of inverted cooking pots.   It is a mind twister, give it time to assimilate.

Red_Sunset

Red_Sunset do we agree then that it all comes down to 2)?  Assuming that we do, then kindly walk me through your calculations of energy for the energy exchanges that take place for the half cycle before the midpoint, and the half cycle after the midpoint where you believe: "piston makes an un-natural parameter (property) change".

[fletcher]

That would be a fair deduction Red - but your point of making it elludes me.

Isn't the ideal to set aside prejudices [or pseudonyms] & explore thought experiments & theory & experiments to find the path to OU, or conversely to find the 'show stopper' that returns our feet to earthly realms [rhetorical] - I welcome any intelligent & well crafted input that pits 'ingenuity against entropy' - so far entropy has the upper hand but that could change with one mechanical device or coherent theory which could be just a thought away, if only we could tease it out.

[MarkE]

MarkE,

Nested risers with retainer wall separators between each riser, the separators go from the bottom up to just under the lid of the riser as such that each riser is in its own container of water and the only connection between the water is the air within each riser connecting each chamber together in a series fashion of air\water\air\water.

The concept for setup we were told is, 1\3 the weight stays on the risers and after lift the other 2\3 is removed, this was the main condition I would setup for.

My testbed started to fail shortly after building it, it was not intended to be used but was a test build to see if I could build a unit by rolling plastic around a form and gluing the ends together then using the previous layer as the bed for the next one,, it was made out of Tennis Ball tubes.

We were also given a basic start relationship of lift to height of the risers.

The information is all in the thread that has been linked to,, but that is a lot of digging and stuff,, I do not have the pictures on this computer so the next time I fire up my other one I will try and remember to post them,, but I am sure someone has them or a link to them directly.

The setup process consisted of getting the system pressures up just enough to hold the weight left on the risers, this also included maintaining a pressure on the input system that did not allow the water to be ejected out of the input at rest, so the whole system was brought into a pressure balance, then the reservoir was raised to increase the input pressure above the resting state pressure, when the risers came into lift potential they were released and the lift happened, then at the end of lift the risers were held against any further lifting motion and the 2\3 weight was removed, then the reservoir was lowered slightly and fluid began to return into the reservoir, at first the outside riser holding the weight did not move but the inside parts did start to move down, and as they moved down the fluid moved back into the reservoir and the reservoir was slowly lowered until it was back at the resting height and the risers were back into there resting positions.

funny you should mention the "lag",, even on a small scale that can be observed and can be put to use.  My best recovery's were when I timed the lift to drop just right,, on the same token I had some of my worst by using the exact wrong timing.  I referred to that as some kind of wave motion within the system.

Webby, thanks.  A picture would be handy, but I'll work with your description.  I am going to offer my description so that you can tell me if I have the correct understanding of the arrangement:

1 A movable water reservoir connects to a set of concentric open (please clarify top or bottom ) pistons (risers) are located in a (please clarify:  sealed or unsealed) container.  Each piston rests on water where the water pneumatically connects by vertical air channels to the next outer and next inner where each channel forms an inverted "U".
2 The system starts with a weight placed on (please clarify: only the outside piston or all of the pistons)
3 Compressed air is added to the system (please state where) until all pistons clear the bottom surface of the overall vessel and water does not eject.
3a At this point pressure (please clarify measured where) is declared as at its resting state value.
3b At this point stops limit the upward movement of the pistons.
4 The movable water reservoir is then lifted by some distance.
5 The stops are removed
6 The system lifts the weight initially loaded.
7 At this point 2/3 of the weight is removed.
8 The reservoir is lowered to an intermediate point.
9 The pistons fall
10 When the outer piston has fallen a predetermined amount the reservoir is lowered to a new intermediate point
11 Steps 8-10 are repeated until the reservoir is back at its starting position.
12 After some time all pistons return to their positions at step 3b.

Since the reservoir and pistons cycle between the same fixed points, and the work done to the outside world was raising 2/3 of the weight from the step 3b) position to the step 6) position, in order to complete the cycle we need to determine what has to be done following step 12 to get us back to the condition of step 3b) where we have 100% of the weight on the pistons and they can again lift that weight to the position in step 6).

Please let me know if I have misunderstood the description, and correct as needed.

[MarkE]

>>    MarkE = Mark Euthanasius  ??  <<

Yes. I am Mark Euthanasius, not to be confused with either Spartacus or Brian.  Referring to myself as MarkE spares people having to write out Euthanasius anytime they wish to address me.