Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap

[TinselKoala]

OK, I fold.
I checked the size on the video, the damn thing is bigger than his thumb from the tip to the knuckle, and on my hand that is in the 35 mm range, so it matches the dimensions given by the manufacturer for the 10uF capacitor.
Thanks for pounding on me, I have always been confused by capacitor markings, especially when there seem to be so many different systems in use, old and new, domestic and foreign.
At least it doesn't have an HP part number or something like that.
So 10 uF at 100 volts is 0.05 Joules, and if the rotor dissipates 5 mW it gets 10 seconds of drive. So we are in the ball park of plausibility, based on the behaviour of the rotor, but I am still skeptical about where the cap gets a full 100 volt charge.

[Farmhand]

@Farmhand: Very nice blueprint schematic. Are your L1 and L2 coils on the same core? Where are the clock signals to the mosfet gates coming from?

Tinsel, Thanks, the trigger pulses come from the rpr 220 photo reflector shown above but the drawing is difficult to fathom I know, I'm awful at explaining myself, the coils are on three different cores, two motor coils MC1-1 and MC1-2 are the two motor coils (separate cores same phase, in parallel) and the MC-2 coils are two coils (bifilar in parallel on one core ) to feed the charge caps and help drive the rotor, the MC-2 coils are the "resonant charging coils" loose term not to upset MileHigh  they share a core, the current phase in them is after the motor coil current phase because of the charge cap and how the "resonant charging circuit works" I'm fairly sure you understand that well and don't need me to explain that area, just saying for others. But yes three separate cores one each for the motor coils and one for the two charge coils to share.

The boost converter is controlled by the picaxe micro and the shutdown signal is provided by it too, but the signals are processed by the CD4047 chip "in hardware kind of thing" but I did that mainly because I can't write interrupt code. When I get my arduino I would very much appreciate your or anyone's help to use that for pulse processing.

Since I've made some small changes to the circuit and an additional option for high current pulses by load switching I'll make a video and try to properly explain things. I've cleaned up the wiring somewhat but I want to clean it up more first so everything can be seen clearly. A person on another forum is interested to try it out so I need to come up with a working formula and may well build another smaller higher voltage higher speed motor in a different form.

Still my halls have not arrived. The rpr 220 photo reflectors are a bit of trouble because they can be affected by bright light, the circuit i made has a sensitivity adjustment and the choice of inverted or non inverted signals depending on if reflector strips or light absorbing strips or grooves are used.

If while using generator coils to power LED's and I take all the released flyback out of the system to cap pulse charge a battery the motor runs a bit slower but charges the battery or runs a load, however if I use my return circuit, the motor runs faster (still generating for the LED's) but uses the same input power, so the energy goes either one place or the other. I use no heatsinks, even with more than 36 Watts input. No hot, barely warm.

Not sure where I will post about it yet, but i would dearly like to continue and develop the pulse control you guys spoke of previously, I think this motor design has merit, it runs smooth and efficiently in "pulse mode" with minimal input, but can also run smooth and with good power driving loads with wider pulse widths, I find 40% is about best, I would have thought 50% but 30% is ok 40 is best for loads.

The charging coil aiding the rotor and increasing the motor cap voltage principal works without the inductive return, they are separate idea's.

Also I ought to correct myself a few times to be sure it gets out, I found that with my motor because of the charging coil I don't require the "L3" inductor in the return circuit, if no charging coil is used as in a regular pulse motor the "L3" inductor should have a lot more inductance than I showed in the drawing. Basically with my motor the MC-2 Charging coil is the impedance that causes the return cap to charge to a high voltage then discharge when it can through the charging coil, so I kind of tricked myself there, the cap can be switched once the coil discharge reaches a certain drain voltage if desired rather than an inductor.

I'll try to get things together in the next day or two so I can show more clearly the circuit and all the details as it is working on the bench.

I do understand I am a very bad explainer and it's no wonder people don't always get what I "trying " to say. My bad, no doubt.

Oh TK the RPR circuit reads the rotor strips and sends the signal to the CD4047 which is configured in "monostable mode" for retriggering. and I use the "555 diode trick" to get less than 50% duty for the "oscillator out pin" output.  The R-C network determines the PW and I can switch to 50% duty ect.. Crude but very effective. 

Cheers

[lasersaber]

@TinselKoala

So 10 uF at 100 volts is 0.05 Joules, and if the rotor dissipates 5 mW it gets 10 seconds of drive. So we are in the ball park of plausibility, based on the behaviour of the rotor, but I am still skeptical about where the cap gets a full 100 volt charge.

It charges really fast just by blowing on it.  One simple flick of the finger sends it up over 10 volts almost instantly.

@Farmhand
That sounds like a really amazing motor.  I am looking forward to seeing the video.

I just posted this over at:  http://laserhacker.com/forum/index.php?topic=155.0

Hi Magluvin,

Also from what I understand from the vids is that the motor operates as a motor and it generates. If you put a diode like in the second vid, is series with all the rest, we can only have one or the other, unless the diode is shorted internally or it has a reverse breakdown that the gen portion of the operation can break.

This will help:  http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/diodes_03.php

"Typically a germanium device may have a reverse leakage current of several micro-Amperes but in silicon devices it is much smaller, only a few nano-Amperes"


I have the germanium diode there to let the rotor function as a generator when accelerated while using the leakage current to keep the rotor spinning when free spinning.  I was only using it while experimenting with the film capacitors.

Laser said in the second vid that voltages can get to be really high across the 10uf cap. Im fairly positive that he means that when he speeds it up, the voltage goes up(generation) and if your not speeding it up it is acting like a motor, of which he says it takes a while for the voltage in the cap to be depleted.

Exactly.  One light spin with my finger tip sends the 10uF film cap up over 10 volts.

And Lasersaber, could you please just poke in here or there so that we know you are still with us?  The spoon feeding and then no communications at all is hard on our imaginations, if you know what I mean.   Hope all is well, and thanks for showing.

Sorry, I am really busy with work, plus every spare moment I have been experimenting with this little motor.  I have done hundreds of different experiments with the motor over the last few nights.  I even tried running it off a piece of Barium titanate transducer!  I have been having a blast and have seen some insanely long run times on small capacitors.  I am currently printing EZ Spin version three with cone shaped bobbins plus a new modular design that will make testing different configurations very easy.  The coils snap in and out allowing for easy testing of different coil windings etc.  I am really interested in air core coils that accelerate the motor while shorted.  I will keep trying to get it to self-run in spite of my doubts that such a thing is possible.  I like trying for the impossible and giving it my best shot.  Already it has been paying off on this little motor.  Prior to this project I would not have thought it possible to easily build a home made motor that spins at a decent RPM while using 1 micro amp.  My previous record was around 20 micro amps and that rotor was much smaller, weighed less and spun slower while using the exact same bearings as this current motor.

[wattsup]

@all

Regarding the reed, I had done some testing on reeds back in 2008 and posted results at this thread;
http://www.overunity.com/3972/the-tesla-project/msg129703/#msg129703

If you can find a separate solenoid air core coil and put the reed through it. The only thing is how to use it in such a set-up. Maybe put that solenoid coil is series with one of the 6 coils and use the 5 others in a series circuit with the cap while the reed itself is between coils 3 and 4 (of 5). This way will eliminate the reed positioning problem since timing will be on coil 6 via a reed with quenching solenoid.

Neos have a very strong effect on the reed making it stick much longer and using the reed outside the wheel might be a way to look at the problem. hehehe

The main point is there are many ways to play around with such a set-up.

Example from @conradelektro image of his scope (see below). For me the thickness of the rise is showing how the magnets and coils are not perfectly aligned at 60 degrees so you are getting six rises clumped into the same overall instance. This is normal for a hand made wheel, By contrast, the EZ motor should show a thinner and either higher or more intense rise since that motor was made using perfect magnet/coil alignment.

One main question will be equal number of coils to magnets or an even/odd mix. I am thinking it will be even/odd as being better because it will really provide the cascade effect to the series coils and not a timed effect on equal coils. That mean two rotors, one with even number and one with odd to experiment the differences.

I am looking into getting myself an @LS wheel.
Seems all I have to do is use the design and find a local printerman then wind the coils and mount the magnets.
I have a better idea, maybe I can buy @Lasersaber's. hehehehehehehehehehehe
I would like to add some other features if possible because I already foresee the variables towards expansion. But the software seems to be very expensive.

http://www.autodesk.com/products/autodesk-3ds-max-design/buy
OUCH!!!!!!!!!

wattsup

Added:

Regarding the germanium diode, I don't think the reverse threshold will play into this because the frequencies are really not high enough, unless there are harmonics being created. Now if you tried the same thing with a diode carousel with regular diode "opening" at .7 volts instead of .2 volts of the germanium diode, that may provide a better cannon effect on the cap since the voltage would have to rise higher to hit the cap. But again, any time you talk diodes, you would need a diode carousel to test many models to find the best one while the rotor is turning.

[TinselKoala]

@lasersaber: thanks for the response, I think your motor is really neat. I'd be building one myself but I don't have my precision tooling available at present, nor any fine magnet wire.
A comment on runtimes: Since you have such a finely-spinning rotor, perhaps dissipating only a few milliWatts or less in bearing and windage friction, it will spin a long time from just an initial spin, with no source of power at all. So the addition of power from a capacitor will increase the time it takes to run down from a given start RPM. (I don't think you are accelerating from a standing start, are you?) It is this difference in rundown times, rather than the absolute time, that is most important, I think.
So, it would be interesting to compare rundown times from a known starting RPM in both conditions: 1) no cap/diode, coil circuit just open; 2) coil/cap in circuit, with cap charged to its stable voltage for that starting RPM.
It would also be very interesting to see just what the power dissipation of the rotor is, using the technique of calculating its MoI and timing some unpowered rundowns from a known RPM. This will give an average "mechanical" power dissipation value, that you can then compare to the rate of energy provided by the capacitor during a powered rundown...eventually leading to an overall efficiency value.
Nice work, I really wish I could build my own to play with. If I build with #27 wire (all I've got) it will be massive !