'Core Rearrangement' - 'Fin Motor' - Open Tech - OU?

[tim123]

Hi Tinman. I'd be quite happy if someone else verified the design, and started selling kits / motors. That's the ideal scenario. The only problem would be if anyone claimed exclusive rights to it, but as long as these forum pages are online - it's dated proof of the origin of the design.

I don't think the laws of man are really laws (they're always changing, and they don't apply equally to all, so they can't really be considered laws, eh...). I think the real law is something like: "give without thought of receiving", so I'll try to do that and leave the rest up to 'the Universe' / 'God' / 'the Force' etc. to sort out.

Anyway, you said you maybe had an idea for the rotor? Was it a variable capacitor? If so - mine are all non-magnetic...

I'm going to do a CAD design for it, but it'll take a week or two at least. I may have to make the prototype with a square-ish core - for an easier build (bolts through center)... Will see...

It'd be nice just to verify that the iron rotor & stator would actually behave in the way predicted - before going too far with the prototyping - I'm finding it a bit difficult to test with what I have lying around though.

[Khwartz]

I'm agree with you, tim123.

If the purpose is to help Humanity by giving open source O.U. devices, I can assure you all it is not our people in our own workshops we will change the world and make a real impact. Only large, so industrial and commercial spreading could do it, cause not everybody is skill or will have the state to produce their own device.

Cheers, Khwartz.

[tim123]

Hi Khwartz 
Yep, the whole point of open-sourcing ideas has to be so that someone else can make the thing for a profit, without you necessarily getting any of it. But then, money is not the only force in the universe, and this life's just a character-test anyway - that's why it's so short...

Anyway, the Fin Motor idea is still just an idea, and I don't think that using pulsed DC will produce OU in this device.

Gyula, I've been digesting the info you gave me previously about inductance, resistance & transient times...

I think I see now that pulsed-DC isn't going to work, and why Tesla went for AC - because you can get the magnetic field to vary much easier using AC. Specifically - if you use a tank circuit - you only have to supply the losses. Using pulsed DC, the time-constant for any decent sized coil is a long time - far too slow for a motor. However, given AC, (and a parallel capacitance) - things change - and we could easily get a big coil resonating at a decent speed...

One thing with AC, and this design, is that it won't rotate. It will pulse though, and that can still be used to drive things - i.e. using a ratchet gear.

There is definitely a change in inductance as the rotor moves. To the coil it looks like many small magnets in the core are moving to join up, and make one long magnet - which does have a bigger field - so there is still a means by which OU may be thwarted... This is really not easy to calculate without the training, but I guess I'll keep working on it.

I've sussed out a really easy way to build a simple version of the fin-motor - only a chop-saw and pillar-drill required (I think) - using readily available square-section mild steel, bearings on each stator, and an acrylic tube to fit it all in. Can easily be made any length.

I'm just not sure at the moment, whether it'll actually be OU or not. I'd really like to be able to do the calcs - so I know how much OU I'll get before the build, if any...

[Khwartz]

Hi tim123.

Money is an "economical energy", said the philosopher; we need it to make the production system functioning.

Did you realised by the way that profit IS the normal pratice of "O.U.": obtention of more economical energy that we put in an enterprise/compagny?

Still I have to make my own indenpent activity "O.U." to have the financial to have a chance to take some weeks to make experiments too again.

Have fun with your device dear tim123

[gyulasun]

...
I think I see now that pulsed-DC isn't going to work, and why Tesla went for AC - because you can get the magnetic field to vary much easier using AC. Specifically - if you use a tank circuit - you only have to supply the losses. Using pulsed DC, the time-constant for any decent sized coil is a long time - far too slow for a motor. However, given AC, (and a parallel capacitance) - things change - and we could easily get a big coil resonating at a decent speed...
...

Hi Tim,

Well, Tesla used both pulsed DC and AC, depending on his final purpose for a task, just remember he has several patents on just mechanical circuit controllers i.e. rotary switches. And with a pulse of a given amplitude and ON time, you can also keep up oscillations in a resonant tank circuit to make up for the losses, in a more precise way than by using your AC.
It is okay that for coils with higher self inductance the pulsed operation may prove to a bad choice but to solve this, you may use many smaller coils in parallel if a setup permits them, albeit if the small coils have to be positioned close to each other, their mutual inductance thus created may also increase time constant, so this would need testing. Using coils in narrow sections with a certain gap between each other and paralleling them may decrease long time constant.

I do not think you should bother too much how inductance of the coil(s) change as the rotor moves, I think the change is small. maybe a few percent. Also, it is very good you wish to calculate output / input ratio in advance, before using your soldering iron but at setups like this the calculations surely involve solving Maxwell equations and even if done correctly, the result may still not indicate more output versus input by default, inherent in the equations. I am not saying this is 100% sure but so far I am not aware of practical proofs for calculated COP>1 cases (COP = Coefficience of Performance)

So the best is to go ahead and build and test and measure.

Greetings, Gyula