Building a self looping "SMOT"

[MileHigh]

Going back to the imaginary setup with the four tracks.  At the end of the of the track the ball changes direction and you lose most of the kinetic energy in the ball.  That kinetic energy was your only hope of getting out of the local potential energy well.  So without any kinetic energy available the ball gets stuck in the potential energy well.

What that means is that if you built all four tracks and set it up perfectly, the thing would not work at all.  There is just no way.  There is a magnetic potential energy well at each corner, and when the ball falls into the well it loses most of its kinetic energy and you are done.   Will all four tracks there is no fist track to "launch" from like where you see the girl in the clip placing balls in the "starting gate."  The "launching" process is killed because, one more time, the "starting gate" is very close to the bottom of a magnetic potential energy well.  The ball will be stuck in the "starting gate" for the real build and resist being moved at all.

MileHigh

[TinselKoala]

@MH: You are describing the situation very "well".
And if you think about it a bit more you will see, from your description, why Magnetic Potential Energy, and also gravitational PE, are _negative_ values, with the "zero" being in the wells you describe, and more and more _negative_ values the further away you get, with maximum _negative_ PE at infinite distance from the magnet or the gravitating body like the Earth. SMOT builders do not realize that the "well" with the ball stuck to the magnets, or deep inside the "well", is actually the _starting position_, and energy must be supplied, doing work, to get the ball out of this position. You need to put work in, to get the ball further away from the magnet or the planet. This is the only work that is returned when you release the ball in the _more negative_ PE position farther away. This is also why you can set your "zero" value of PE at some arbitrary location. (What is the PE of a ball dropping from a table to a floor... on the 56th floor of a skyscraper?)

We often talk as though PE is a positive value... and in the sense that it takes work to "store" the PE in the object's position, you can think of it that way.... but you will eventually fool yourself into thinking that you can get energy out that you didn't put there in the first place if you continue to think that way.

Why is PE negative:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pegrav.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_energy
http://capone.mtsu.edu/phys2010/Lectures/Part_3__L12_-_L17/Lecture_11/Potential_Energy/potential_energy.html
and many many more.

@Chet:
You have a funny definition of "fun"!  It amuses me greatly to see people like elecar making his claims and stirring up a fuss without providing any proof at all of his claims. But is it fun to beat your head against the wall, trying to get blood out of the stones? Apparently so, for some people.

Bothered by the noise of his perpetual motion machine? Aww... cue tiny violins playing sad music. I do believe that I could put up with even the sound of a perpetual jackhammer, long enough to make a video proving it works as I claim it does. Earplugs! But that's just me.  If all you require as "proof" of a self looping SMOT is for someone to claim he's got one.... I call that religious faith, not a scientific attitude.

Don't you remember Wayne Travis, with all his engineers and big machines and two visits from Mark Dansie? He couldn't meet the objections on this forum, couldn't demonstrate his claims, and finally asked for his thread to be closed, with great insults to all his critics. And now he's in full on damage control mode, being sued by early investors and trying to find someone to buy out all the others before they sue him too, because he cannot produce a self running machine like he claimed to. That's what happens when you substitute religious faith for real scientific scepticism.

[mondrasek]

Don't you remember Wayne Travis, with all his engineers and big machines and two visits from Mark Dansie? He couldn't meet the objections on this forum, couldn't demonstrate his claims, and finally asked for his thread to be closed, with great insults to all his critics. And now he's in full on damage control mode, being sued by early investors and trying to find someone to buy out all the others before they sue him too, because he cannot produce a self running machine like he claimed to.

Those are very interesting facts you are relaying.  Can you provide any references?  I'd like to learn more about it.

M.

[MileHigh]

I will give you my take on the Naudin "The SMOT Energy - Efficiency and Gain" clip.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smotnrgt.htm

Hi first measurement is to measure the distance up the tube for a pure gravity drop, which is fine.  That's his reference distance.

He has a magnetic v-gate ramp.  It's the same deal as before.  The v-gate ramp is just another magnetic potential energy well and the bottom of the well is at the end of the ramp.

You can think of the v-gate ramp as being like a slingshot.  But of course it's a slingshot with a major problem, the ball remains connected to the elastic bands when you release the slingshot.  So think of this in terms of the setup, the ball runs up the ramp, past the sticky spot, and continues on.  Eventually the ball will stop from the elastic bands, losing all of it's kinetic energy trying to get past the sticky spot, a.k.a.; the magnetic potential energy well.

So that means, that the "cocking" of the "rail gun" pushes the ball past the sticky spot by a certain distance.  The more magnetic potential energy in the ball before you release it, the farther the ball will travel past the sticky spot before it runs out of energy.  Let's call that the "overshoot" distance.

Think of the setup, the ball emerges from the rail gun with the kinetic energy from the rail gun cocking and the available gravitational energy for the fall.

Your reference is the distance for a pure gravity fall.

That is being compared to some unknown overshoot distance due to the cocking energy plus the expected distance from the gravitational fall.  Note the gravity fall itself is being affected by the effort required to pull out of the magnetic potential energy well.

i.e.; the experiment is this:

[reference gravity fall distance] <= [[unknown kinetic energy distance] + [exit gravity fall distance less well losses]]

So it looks to me by cocking this system with energy from Mr. Hand, that this will give the ball an extra boost and result in it moving further up the tube.  This is a preliminary analysis.  I think its because of this:  The "bonus" unknown extra distance from the kinetic energy is eventually all lost.  However, in a manner of speaking, this "transports" the ball into a region where the the gravity-to-kintetic energy can then continue running the ball up the tube.  In this region the effects of the magnetic potential energy well are greatly reduced and so the ball travels farther overall.

I think the key point is that the magnetic rail gun is energetically neutral.  It doesn't add any energy to the system.  However, it has the ability to move the ball from one side of the sticky spot to the other side of the sticky spot with zero net expenditure of energy.  So it's like you get displacement with no net energy cost for free.  In this case the "free displacement" from the magnetic rail gun results in the ball rolling further up the tube.

I could be wrong but I believe this is the explanation.

MileHigh

[TinselKoala]

Those are very interesting facts you are relaying.  Can you provide any references?  I'd like to learn more about it.

M.

Weren't you in his "inner circle"? You probably know more about it than I do.
Well, surely you don't need any references to the old, closed thread. And you can check mrwaynesbrain.com to see that he has stopped with his public "updates" and has gone into stealth mode. His lawyers finally told him he can't make false claims while soliciting investment in public, I guess.
I've seen material from and about Travis that I am not at liberty to share fully at the moment. I have a video of a 16 minute presentation Travis made but if I show it he is likely to try to sue me, since it is supposed to be "confidential". But on the internet, nothing is really confidential, is it. In the presentation Travis does not claim to have a self running, energy producing machine any more, but he does talk a lot about his business plan, about Tesla and Ford, the Wright brothers and Einstein, about "milestones" and "efforts"... and of course TAZ and ZED and other ridiculous meaningless acronyms. He mentions the lawsuit at 15:32 into the video when he talks about "hard doors closing on us" and trying to find new investors to buy out the old, dissatisfied ones.

The still frame below is presented in accordance with the Fair Use clause of the DMCA: it is for educational use and is part of a critical and forensic review of claims made by Wayne Travis concerning his alleged self-running energy producing machine.