How to make multiple Kicks

[verpies]

It simply would mean that the electrons are just "shoved", "pulled", "repelled", " attracted" or otherwise moved as a result of the charge flow or something as simple as that.

I was drawn to the same conclusion despite holding a Ph.D in conventional physics.

Outside of solid conductors, particles are definitely "shoved", "pushed" and bombarded by charge. 
The difference is that non-charged particles (e.g. neutrons) are "shoved" equally in all directions (equal forces in all directions sum to zero), while charged particles are "shoved" asymmetrically because they channel the charge asymmetrically through themselves. 

For example, according to the links to Miles' papers that I posted, the spatial distribution of proton's charge channeling profile, is like a disk. 
In other words, charge goes in through the axis and exits around the equator. 
The quantity of charge is preserved while making this trip, but its directional distribution is affected severely and the charge "shoving" forces stop being equal in all directions.

I am open to anything that makes sense and is logical. Especially if it can help me in practical ways.

I think that mechanical interactions are also needed besides logic to make sense of nature.
Fortunately charge can be explained mechanically just like colliding spinning baseball balls, that move and spin at the speed of light.

[MileHigh]

Farmhand actually got it right in one of his recent postings.  Electrons themselves are just a "medium" for lack of a better term.  It's the electric field that exists in the ambient environment of the conductor that directly influences and affects what the electrons do.  When you turn on a switch, every single electron in the circuit is all of a sudden being pushed around by the same manifestation of the electric field.

There is no bumping into each other or passing a bucket or anything like that.   It's like all of a sudden all of the electrons have invisible stretched elastic bands pulling them in a certain direction.  They all feel it and they all move at the same time.

You can measure the current and you know one amp is a coulomb of charge per second.  You also know how many electrons there are in a coulomb.  So you can determine how many electrons per second pass a point.  The actual physical drift velocity of the electrons in a wire I am sure can be calculated.  However, you have to ask yourself is this information useful?  When you play with electronics the voltage and the current reign supreme.  You have to assume that the physical drift velocity of the electrons in a very thin wire is faster than the velocity for a thick wire.  Okay, but then what?  What can I do with that information?

On the micro time scale, when the switch closes, the electric field moves down the wire at close to the speed of light.  So that means you can ignore that very small time factor when you work on the bench.  Not if you are a digital design engineer, though.  The speed a signal travels at in a circuit board trace is now critical.  If you have a good scope you should be able to see the propagation delay in a signal that travels one inch and the same signal travelling 10 inches.

Anyway, going back to the electrons and giving you a simplistic analogy, I think of the electric field like a "wind" and the electrons are like "floating leaves in the wind."  It's Autumn.  The strength of the "wind" is like the strength of the electric field.

I know that many people don't believe that moving electrons are responsible for what we call "electric current" in a conductor like a wire.  The problem is that there is so much experimental evidence to support that and there isn't any that I am aware of for the alternative theories.

Somebody mentioned the symmetry of Nature.  Probably the best analogy for electric circuits is the water in a pipe analogy.  With enough insight that should make sense to most of you.  Can you think of the "water circuit" equivalents for the standard components that you see in electronics?

MileHigh

[verpies]

Farmhand actually got it right in one of his recent postings.

How do you know?

Electrons themselves are just a "medium" for lack of a better term.

Medium for what? Why is any medium needed at all, for the movement of charge?
Why doesn't displacement current require the "electron medium" to transmit charge?

It's the electric field that exists in the ambient environment of the conductor that directly influences and affects what the electrons do. 

Does "ambient" mean inside the conductor or outside the conductor to you?
What is that "electric field" you are writing about in this context?
Is it a mathematical field of vectors (vectors denoting what?: force, speed, etc..) or something real that can interact mechanically (e.g. like wind particles) ?

When you turn on a switch, every single electron in the circuit is all of a sudden being pushed around by the same manifestation of the electric field.

Again, you're slipping into the discussion the undefined and unanalyzed concept of "electric field". 
Let's assume for now that you mean a group of some "charge particles" (not "charged particles"!), that are smaller than electrons and that those particles cause forces giving rise to a "field of electric forces".  If this assumption is correct then it begs the following questions:
How do you know that free charged electrons move inside solid conductor due to a push by a charge wind?
Is it because electrons are pushed by charge outside of conductors?
If "yes", do you consider the inside of the conductor to be the same as the outside of the conductor for the electrons ?

There is no bumping into each other or passing a bucket or anything like that.   It's like all of a sudden all of the electrons have invisible stretched elastic bands pulling them in a certain direction.  They all feel it and they all move at the same time.

That's non mechanical. Sounds like magic and is exactly the type of thinking that a logical person should be avoiding.

You can measure the current and you know one amp is a coulomb of charge per second.  You also know how many electrons there are in a coulomb.  So you can determine how many electrons per second pass a point. 

Only if you assume that free charged electrons are necessary for carrying the charge through the wire.

On the micro time scale, when the switch closes, the electric field moves down the wire at close to the speed of light. 

...but what is this electric field?  A field of what? 
In legacy science an "electric field" is a "field of force vectors". It is an abstract concept, that does not even specify the cause of those forces. You are not suggesting invisible rubber bands again, are you?

So that means you can ignore that very small time factor when you work on the bench.  Not if you are a digital design engineer, though.  The speed a signal travels at in a circuit board trace is now critical.  If you have a good scope you should be able to see the propagation delay in a signal that travels one inch and the same signal traveling 10 inches.

I know, I run into this problem all the time when synchronizing clocks to my FPGAs.  However this is an enginnering problem, that detracts us from the discussion how charge travels inside a solid wire.

Anyway, going back to the electrons and giving you a simplistic analogy, I think of the electric field like a "wind" and the electrons are like "floating leaves in the wind."

I see no evidence against electrons being blown by a charge wind like leaves (outside conductors), but why do you insist, that this wind needs leaves at all in order to exist and move ?
Can't the wind (consisting of air molecules in motion) exist without leaves?  Can't charge exist without electrons ?

The strength of the "wind" is like the strength of the electric field.

Do you mean that:
1) this "wind" is the "electric field" ?
2) this "wind" causes the "forces of the electric field" ?

In any case what is this wind composed of. or at least, what are the properties of its constituents?

I know that many people don't believe that moving electrons are responsible for what we call "electric current" in a conductor like a wire.  The problem is that there is so much experimental evidence to support that and there isn't any that I am aware of for the alternative theories.

Really!? Can you quote some experimental evidence that proves that free charged electrons are necessary for the transmission of charge through a wire (moving charge is electric current). 
Also, how do you explain the electron-less displacement current in a vacuum capacitor ?
BTW: I do not dispute that moving electrons in free space constitute current, but that's different than current inside conductors.

As, for the alternative theories, can you explain why don't all the free charged electrons in a conductor repel themselves onto the surface of a conductor after a while. 
That's for starters.

[Qwert]

Farmhand, Verpies, Milehigh, I think these links can be quite appropriate in your recent discussion:
http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html
http://amasci.com/ele-edu.html

According to those pages, Verpies is the closest one to the truth.

[MileHigh]

Verpies:

I still think the meaning of "current" in "displacement current" is misunderstood.  There is no current, nothing flowing, in displacement current.  They don't literally mean current when they say displacement current.  They use "current" as a pseudonym for what is really happening to make it easer to talk about it.  So no need for electrons.  It's replaced by the changing field generated by the electrons.

Ambient means inside the conductor.  I am always talking about the same electric field, the one you can measure with your multimeter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXxkIjJY1DY

How do you know that free charged electrons move inside solid conductor due to a push by a charge wind?

This is where people need to think of water pressure in a pipe and its ability to make the water move.  You know an electric field will apply a force to a charge and make it move.  Because of this property of charge interacting with an electric field and the property of the wire being a conductor, you can get current flow.

The inside of a conductor and the free space around the conductor are definitely different so I am not sure what you are alluding to there.

That's non mechanical. Sounds like magic and is exactly the type of thinking that a logical person should be avoiding.

It only sounds like magic if you discount or for some reason don't want to believe in what experimentation shows on the bench.  As mentioned above, charges are affected by electric fields.

The "leaves" are the outer valence electrons in the metallic matrix.

Can you quote some experimental evidence that proves that free charged electrons are necessary for the transmission of charge through a wire (moving charge is electric current).

Discharge a capacitor through a resistor and observe the exponential decay.

As, for the alternative theories, can you explain why don't all the free charged electrons in a conductor repel themselves onto the surface of a conductor after a while.

I am not sure if you are talking about a charged body or not.  Certainly for a charged body the excess electrons are on the surface.

MileHigh