1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!

[leviterande]

Unfortunately this is by far  not the case xee,   I dont know what is really going on in that experiment but I can tell you precisely what it is not. it is not a result of:

-ionized air
-repulsion against the earths official negative charge

you can see clearly why  very simply from tests and from the paper
There are so many reasons that you can see in the paper  and that I did myself at home. but in short,   if we suppose it is a  force due tu ionization , a parallel capacitor is the most INEFFICIENT electrical device to do that, why?  the charge is held on the plates´ inner facing sides, not on the outside,  the outside sides of the plates are neutral. Any leakage would be where the terminal contacts are and if there is any  ionization there it is perfectly symmetrical and cant produce thrust, but if it is even  asymmetrical, the force due tu the ionization at the side  terminals is is unbelievably tiny, but even if this ionizations is  asymmetrical and big, the capacitor should work in the faraday cage but it didn't at all as mentioned in the paper, the other ion grid worked in the faraday cage however!:)

I tried really leaky giant capacitors,  you can hardly get any thrust ... 

By constant  voltage he meant that to compensate for the loss of charge  he needed to keep charging it, it is the complete opposite to  ion EHD devices.  The more leaky the capacitor is the less thrust he got.

I analyzed and researched quite a bit, if I got some results I would be relieved, but its not entirely impossible it was all my poor digital scales fault? In any case my almost final semi educated guess after lots of thinking is this:

The very seemingly careful engineer and experimenter Doyle looks like he has made two very huge and vital mistakes:
1- he created really really really  leaky capacitors to ionize the surrounding air
2- and he  forgot to remove the  metal plate/lamp-plate/metal piece  hanging from the roof above the capacitor!


Take these two and  it makes perfect sense! But he got  to be quite idiotic to  do that...and the caps were actually heavily insulated from all sides...

[gauschor]

This topic reminds me of the Bashars spacecraft engine topic with it's (imo) 2 capacitive hemispheres. Maybe in this case here we should also use hemispheres... like a Van-De-Graaff generator, which can be charged much better than simple plates, and furthermore has all its charge outside the sphere instead of inside, and also allows hundred or millions of volts.

Btw. after your experiments I can assume that nothing happens until a certain threshold is passed. It reminds me of a behaviour like this: trying to put 2 opposite magnet poles together: first nothing happens, but at a certain point it suddenly makes a jump/repells each other violently. Impossible to get a linearly ascending result though.

Unfortunately it gets dangerous when the voltages are so high...

[tim123]

This topic reminds me of the Bashars spacecraft engine topic with it's (imo) 2 capacitive hemispheres. Maybe in this case here we should also use hemispheres... like a Van-De-Graaff generator, which can be charged much better than simple plates, and furthermore has all its charge outside the sphere instead of inside, and also allows hundred or millions of volts.

Hi gauschor
  I agree that (hemi) spheres are ideal - all the charge on the outside - lots o volts - definitely.

Anything channeled is 100% guaranteed to be BS IMO... But it might have some elements of truth in it.

I've been wondering about making a high-power triboelectric gen - to keep the weight down, but still give 100s of KV...

Btw. after your experiments I can assume that nothing happens until a certain threshold is passed.

It does seem that's the case. T Townsend Brown was using 50Kv to start with... I don't think I can get more than 30Kv ATM...

I wonder if AC would work? Bueler's test's indicated that it might... In which case perhaps the HV could be supplied by a tesla coil?

Regards, Tim

[xee2]

I wonder if AC would work?

If you are getting 30KV AC you can make a simple voltage double to get 60KV.

[gauschor]

It might indeed be better to power the cap first with a power supply other than a Wimshurst. I like Wimshursts/Toeplers a lot, but from what I recall Townsend always said that at least 1mA current is required (a quick search in fact reveals "Brown recommended a HV supply of +/- 50KV with at least 1 mA to begin with").
Unfortunately the Wimshurst delivers only something like Nano or Picoampere, so therefore we might not see any effect using them.

But before I speak further I should really read this paper... edit: finished, it's a great read, though I miss specific values for voltage/amperage. I still assume something like 1+ mA was used. Very interesting that it just reduces weight no matter the polarity. So they mostly stopped at a 100KV supply and almost reached 20% weight reduction. Especially note should be taken on the last experiment (parallel plates, glass dieelectric), that one plate had double the size compared to the other.

But what would happen at 1000 KV ...