Moped Generator... reconstructed....

[pg46]

Hi -

Would be good to hear from Frost . I wonder how he is doing in modifying his vespa alternator? Where I live I have found new or reconditioned vespa alternator units that look like what Frost had shown in his photos. they cost about $80US for a complete unit.
  Legendre is right when thinking of the possible speeds of the Vespa scooters that are 150 cc plus and those tiny wheels that they have -scary for sure. I don't know the size of the batteries that they have but I will try to find out. I don't think that the batteries alone will explain all of the lights these guys run on their bikes. I don't see anyone doing this with their Japanese scooters around these parts. Even if you have large battery storage your alternator needs to keep up to your amperage draw of your electrical systems plus have some to spare to keep your battery charged.

Lets hope to hear from Frost and see how he is doing.

Best,

[Frost]

My vespa is the old ciao with no batteri or any fansy electric systems, it only has a front and back light, it is a 49 cc engine. the only thing i have done so far is replased the magnet with 16 SMALL magnets, that has changed the power output from a 25W max to 200W+ max, in idle it puts out aprox 12v 6a AC, i have also made another flywheel with as big magnets i could fit in, it has no problem fully lighting a 12V 95W light bulb in idle (600-800 rpm). now this is only using 1 of the 2 coils in the engine. the 2 coil is used to make ignition, it was the only reason why i even made the "conversion" in the first place, i had a lot og ign problem?s with the stock 25w power system, since i have made the "conversion" the ignition has not had any problem?s. but here?s the kicker no matter how hard i load the coil, it does?t take power from the engine (that meens HP from the engine). now with the big magnet?s it made up to 600w on 1 coil, now lets say that i make a lawnmower ign for the sparkplug only and use 2 coils that makes 1200w and i does?t use more than ? HP.
The moped generator uses coils in the center and magnets around the coils. A "normal" generator from a car, uses Magnets in the center and coils around it, it makes a giant eletro magnet that takes HP from the engine, the moped generator does?t take more power from the engine when you really load it. hope it helps.... you should be able to find scematic/blueprints on any mopeds ign if you want to try this. any moped would do, they all have similur ign systems. belive me i have had way over 100 mopeds of all sorts.

[pg46]

Hi Frost-

Nice to hear from you. Thanks for all of your information. I was curious, how many HP does the Vespa 49cc engine produce anyways?
I have found some new or rebuilt Vespa alternators and the ones I see have 3 coils in them?? I don't know what models they come from but the 150cc models are common around here. It is very interesting that you claim you may get 1200W(or 600w/coil) while using less than 1/2 HP from the engine. That would be very useful for sure. Maybe with the relatively large sized outer ring that are holding the magnets it acts like a flywheel where once in motion it has quite a bit of power to keep its momentum and thus doesn't use much HP from the engine?
I don't know but I think I may go get myself a Vespa generator and try it for myself someday soon.

Thanks for sharing your interesting discovery.

Best Regards,

[legendre]

The ignition on the Vespa Ciao isn't anything special, for sure. It's the same type of flywheel magneto used on pretty much every classic moped, and one of the reasons that they require pedals.. they are not overly reliable, especially when age and lack of maintainence combine.

In general, 49cc moped engines produce between 1 and 2 horsepower, in stock form. I'm not sure of the exact ratings for the Ciao, but I suspect that like many mopeds, the US and EUR versions differ a bit. Again, in general terms, the EUR models tend to make a little more power than the US models.

Frost - please keep in mind that 2HP converts to 1.5kW (1500 watts). A 95W lightbulb represents only 6.33% of the total power available from a 2HP engine. I applaud your interest in old motorbikes, they are vastly underappreciated these days. BUT - until you can light up 1500W of light, and still drive the bike at road speed, I don't think there is any call for miraculous claims of free energy.

pg46 - "Maybe with the relatively large sized outer ring that are holding the magnets it acts like a flywheel where once in motion it has quite a bit of power to keep its momentum and thus doesn't use much HP from the engine?"

It would be nice if it worked like that, but it doesn't. A flywheel is basically just a capacitor (condenser) for kinetic energy. It can store a great deal of energy over time, and release it very quickly - but it is still 100% conservative - you can only take out as much (well, actually less, according to the second law) as you put in to it. While a flywheel can produce large pulses of power when required, the average ouput power, over time, is slightly less than the input.

Best wishes to both of you. Don't disappoint your moped, take it for a ride!

[pg46]

Hi Legendre-

I appreciate your feedback. I don't know what Frost has done for load tests really beyond running the 95 watt bulb at an idle. When you consider that he started with an original 25 watt unit he has already made a obvious large improvement over the original design by replacing the old weak magnets with permanent magnets.
I'm not clear on all what he has done although he talked about a 200W and a 500W flywheel and taking it for a test drive to compare the two. He did say that with the 500w flywheel design it did in fact drag his power down somewhat and so effected his possible speeds. I am guessing that he meant that spinning those more powerful magnets created a reduction of available engine power even without an electrical load - but just guessing here.
Would be very good if Frost will be able to give us a more clear example with a good load test.

Legendre, did you see my post about the portable generator?

http://www.duropower.com/item.asp?PID=132&FID=1&level=0

This is a fun one for you, where the rated HP of the small desiel engine is 9 HP. Thats OK, but then wait a minute.. they say the electrical output power of the generator is 7500 watts! now what's up with that I wonder?? Maybe you can have a look at it yourself and tease the California manufacturer about it. There must be a serious misprint there right?

Thanks for your comments and all the best,