Lenzless resonant transformer

[verpies]

according to verpies at resonance core is not necessarily saturated if drive current is too low.

That's true for a series LC circuit.
For parallel LC circuit, the drive current can be low but the LC circulation current can be high.

[itsu]

Ok,  i tried severall things as requested, but it does not stay stable.
Whenever i change something in a coil, the other coils are out of their resonance.

When doing a resonance test for one of the secondary coils (feeding a signal in from L3), i HAVE to disconnect the cap from the other secondary.
It then shows correct resonance as compared to a resonance calculator on the web (around 157Hz).

But when hooking up again the other cap, the resonance frequency shoots up to 6.6KHz.

Same when i hook up a bulb in the right secondary, it changes the left secondary resonance once again to 4.8KHz, while the resonance of the right secondary
which contains the bulb now shoots up to 11KHz judging at the peak light in the bulb.

In this last situation we have different resonance frequencies between the both secondary coils.
When i now also add some capacitance to L3, the circus is changing once again

I feel like the guy in the drawing

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vat5Z9gfuwM&feature=youtu.be

Regards Itsu

[Magluvin]

That's true for a series LC circuit.
For parallel LC circuit, the drive current can be low but the LC circulation current can be high.

So maybe try to put the 2 coils wound on each side of the core in series with 1 cap, or a cap on each connection(should be the same thing if the 2 caps were 2 times the uf as the 1 cap).

Connections of the coils may have to be tried in reverse if nothing happens.

Then instead of trying to load one of the 2 coils, wind a 4th coil(3rd being the outer coil as shown earlier) and try loading that when the 1 and 2 coils, really 1 bigger coil, are in resonance.
Loading the 4th coil will change the resonant freq, so once a load is chosen, adjust the freq in accordingly for that load.

3 ways to wind the 4th coil

1  wind it in either area where coils 1 and 2 are not, the open spaces between 1 and 2, and test.

2  wind 2 coils, each on top of 1 and 2 coils, then series them to be 1 coil, and test

3  add an additional core to the winding in way 1.  We use another core(doesnt have to be the same as the main core) where we wind the wire through the main core and through the second core. So through main core, through second core, through the main core and through the second core till done. Space the second core a bit, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 in. from the main core, in a position that makes what looks like a figure 8 or a snow man.     The addition of the second core to the 4th winding will allow the 4th coil to be loaded without disturbing the resonance of coils 1 and 2.   


I would go for way 3 , as I think loading any coil on the main core will kill resonance of the resonating coils.    We all know that there appears to be more going on in resonance compared to the input. The trouble is extracting that larger energy. Seems no matter what we do, loading kills off the resonance or alters the freq drastically and the freq would have to change with varying loads. But if we can extract without killing the resonance, then that is the path I would take.

Ive tested the multi core described in  the PDF "Classic Flux Anomaly" I presented earlier, no resonance based tests at the time, and when loading the secondary that has 2 magnetic circuits, the idle primary input is reduced as compared to no loading of the secondary. Loading the secondary increases the inductance of the primary, which is opposite of what we are used to.

In the pdf it states that loading the secondary doesnt kill the primary if in resonance. It may change the primary freq due to increasing the primary inductance, not sure. Havnt gotten to try that part yet. Plan to. 

Mags

[Magluvin]

Something to add here.

The multi core transformer, 1 primary on the main core, and the secondary looped through the main core and a second core, loading the secondary does lower the input in reference to primary idle current. But the PDF states that you wont get more out than in, even under the extraordinary conditions it provides. 

The possible key here is extracting from that larger elevation of the resonance. Many say that there is elevation in activity at resonance, but extracting it is problematic. 

Well, Im thinking this dual core is the way to go. 


Mags

[MileHigh]

Itsu:

I may have the beginnings of the answer to the mystery of why the resonance frequency jumps up so high when you are driving both secondary tank circuits.  It's an incomplete answer and I am feeling my limitations.  (I think I just figured out the key clue, you may be able to confirm it for yourself.)

For starters we know that the angular resonance frequency of an LC tank circuit is 1/Sqrt(LC).

Since the resonance frequency jumps up very high when you connect the two separate series tank circuits, let's make the assumption that the effective L decreases dramatically when both tank circuits are connected.

Now here is a thought experiment:  Remove both capacitors and drive the setup through L3 like normal.  We now have a transformer setup with L1 and L2 as secondaries, with a "bizarre" core that resembles a "cylinder" inside the L3 coil.  The "top" of the "cylinder" is the upper exposed blue toroid.  The "bottom" of the "cylinder" is the lower exposed blue toroid.  Lines of magnetic flux travel through the air between the "top" and "bottom" of the "cylinder."

Let's suppose that L1 and L2 generate perfectly matched EMF.  If we connect the L1 and L2 outputs together so that they are in phase, then it still looks like an open circuit "pair of secondaries."  The EMFs match and no current flows through L1 and L2.

Conversely, if we connect L1 and L2 together so that they are out of phase, then you will have an AC short circuit, lots of current will flow through L1 and L2, that will be reflected to L3, so that the signal generator will see L3 looking like a heavy load.  Since there is no closed loop magnetic circuit for the core, it looks like a somewhat heavy load to the signal generator and not a near-AC short-circuit condition.  If you had a true closed-loop toroidal core for L3 then it would look like much more of an AC short-circuit.  (In the past few minutes I am very confident I figured it out, and that last sentence is the big clue, but moving on....)

We know that if you have an AC short circuit, that looks like L=0.   However, we are in the real world, and the EMFs generated by L1 and L2 will not exactly match.  Lo and behold with EMFs that don't exactly match, it looks like L is very small.  That would translate into a much higher resonant frequency, so it looks like we may be on the right track.

To be continued...

MileHigh