Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED

[MarkE]

Apples to oranges MarkE.

Push the risers down and that pushes the water up.

What constraint is stopping the pod and risers from lifting further in your state 3 drawing?

Are you still rejecting the Wayne Travis approved stipulation by Mondaresk?

The water and air are free to move and the pod and risers are weightless.  AR7 allows for outside air to enter the system.

Are you actually saying that the actual total lift of the outside riser would be  2.5906mm if allowed to move freely.

That is what one set of calculations show.  You are free to show work that contends a different answer.

The lift of the pod and risers will happen even with a 99.9% resistance placed against them, they may move slow but rate has nothing to do with energy, remember.

Excuse me what is a 99.9% resistance and where was it stipulated?

Again MarkE, what is stopping the pod and risers from lifting, I have shown, and you have shown, that it is not a volume issue, so what is it.

Please answer my question about force.  Do you contend that the restraints that prevent movement impart energy or not?

[minnie]

  Hi,
     Mond seeing that the air is incompressible and the riser has no weight it should
     equalise, that's what I think, it ought to move up!
                                               John.

[TinselKoala]

Minnie, here is the ZED from MarkE's State 3.  But with only the outer riser represented.  Can it rest in this state?  Or does the Riser need to move up (the air inside is incompressible) until the water level inside and outside are equal height?

Is the impossibly incompressible air inside also massless? Because the answer depends on that. And note that if the air were real air, compressible and obeying the combined Boyle-Charles law... it would behave completely differently, calling into question Wayne's claim that an incompressible fluid would work in lieu of air.

Also, some pages back mond, you once again said something about how the outside air pressure/volume needed to be considered. I don't think it does, as I said before, because the outside air pressure pushes on the top of the outer water layer with the same pressure no matter how high the level is up in the zed. The outer air, because of its huge volume, is like a "perfectly compressible" fluid: it stores no energy for you because you can "compress" it and its volume doesn't change, and vice versa, because the volume is so huge relative to the slight volume changes you can make with the outer layer of water in a Zed ringwall. I think.

[MarkE]

Minnie, here is the ZED from MarkE's State 3.  But with only the outer riser represented.  Can it rest in this state?  Or does the Riser need to move up (the air inside is incompressible) until the water level inside and outside are equal height?

Let's start with your stipulation that in State 1 there is no uplift.  Is that or is that not your stipulation?

[mondrasek]

Is the impossibly incompressible air inside also massless? Because the answer depends on that. And note that if the air were real air, compressible and obeying the combined Boyle-Charles law... it would behave completely differently, calling into question Wayne's claim that an incompressible fluid would work in lieu of air.

The incompressible air has an ASSUMED Specific Gravity = 0.

In fact, using a compressible fluid such as real air causes more losses due to the relationships described in the Ideal Gas Law, PV=nRT.  The change in V due to P does change the T, by creating heat when compressed.  It is a loss mechanism only and cannot be completely recovered.  So using two incompressible liquids leads to a better performance.  And the bigger the difference between those two fluid's Specific Gravity values, the better.

Also, some pages back mond, you once again said something about how the outside air pressure/volume needed to be considered. I don't think it does, as I said before, because the outside air pressure pushes on the top of the outer water layer with the same pressure no matter how high the level is up in the zed. The outer air, because of its huge volume, is like a "perfectly compressible" fluid: it stores no energy for you because you can "compress" it and its volume doesn't change, and vice versa, because the volume is so huge relative to the slight volume changes you can make with the outer layer of water in a Zed ringwall. I think.

I agree that the outside air pressure/volume does not need to be considered.  Except that the system is open to the outside air and so air can enter and exit the system freely as Pressure and Volume changes inside the system require to satisfy the Volume constraint of each internal fluid to remain constant.