Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED

[powercat]

Hmm. I can imagine that if Wayne were to introduce an engineer or Ph.D here, it would be necessary to give their full name and possibly some other ID in order for it to be checked out that they are really who they say they are.

Well wouldnt that be a wonderful thing for that engineer or Ph.D to do so, reveal who they are in the real world right here and now, along with complete information so they can be hassled in their lives beyond this forum. I can see it now.....

"Well hello Mr. Fraud Engineer and accomplice Mr Fraud Ph.D?. Tell us your lies Mr engineer. Tell us your Lies Mr Ph.D."    Right off the bat. Yeah, that would be fun for them, considering the NDA would be in the way of them being able to explain anything further than has already been discussed here. So whats the point?. More people to slander and insult consistently? I would not subject these people to this sort of 'non professionalism'. Like I said above, these people would have to fully identify themselves in order for it to be believed that they are who the claim to be. And if they were to read through this thread first to see who and what abuse and bullying they would be subjected to, why would they want to even get involved in that kind of demonizing and never ending consistent insults and libel?

So what would be the point in Wayne doing so if they could not divulge anything beyond the NDA?     What, the NDA is an indication of fraud? They are 'very' important documents when presenting and idea to others so as to protect the idea by revealing to chosen others. It is standard procedure in presenting new ideas/inventions. Show me an example that an NDA is an absolute indication of fraud.  So you can drop that balony right here and now.

Heck, TK woulndt ever reveal who he is, no way no how. He would not reveal his full credentials, where and how they were obtained. For what reasons?  The same that these engineers and Ph,D's 'should not' engage here with full presentation as to who they are in the real world. This thread is a perfect reason and example. Pretty simple really. 

And if you said, " Oh, I will be cordial and only kind words will be used when conversing with them Wayne"  Why would anyone believe that?   After reading all the bashing towards Wayne, Tom, Mike and Larry, WHY WOULD ANYONE BELIEVE YOU MARK? ?   And no matter how you try to explain how good you would treat them, the history of this thread is you are a bully. That cannot be denied. Its written in stone bud.  You are stuck with that here in this forum. You cant just stick to the technical issues to present your case.  There has to be nastiness included on every page. Lol, like it is productive and shows what a big smart man you are. What a joke. Well, thats just your way. Oh, its not just your way? Who else here is acting the same way?  You know who you are.

Its really funny that just about every one of you is abusive.  Why is that I wonder? All from the same school of, "cant beat then down with technical knowledge, so bully tactics are necessary."
So much respect you all deserve.    Keep up the good works.     Its really workin for ya.
Mags

Under normal circumstances a lot of what you say is very justified, but we are talking about Wayne Travis' who won't give out any technical information who won't have his device verified who promises things will happen soon, who keeps telling everyone they have missed it. and when it comes to abuse Wayne has always been abusive from the beginning he expects everyone to take him for as word, without him needing to reveal any information, read the first thread yourself and find out, and ask yourself this if he's not going to give out any information why is he here ?  Here are some quotes from Wayne from his first thread on this forum

Quote from: mrwayne on May 28, 2012, 03:20:19 PM
I always keep my word, and I tell the truth even when it hurts
Quote from: mrwayne on May 25, 2012, 04:14:10 PM
I promise, you who wish open sourcing will not be disappointed.
Quote from: mrwayne on June 02, 2012, 06:47:33 AM
We will be releasing to scientific journals and presenting the Data professionally, when Marks Group reccomends.
I look forward to the longevity runs as well, Next weekend is when we have the help to set up the new
plc equipment and software.
Quote from: mrwayne on June 10, 2012, 04:40:37 AM
Mark Dansie has assembled the team for our Extended runs - critical review
Quote from: mrwayne on June 24, 2012, 03:40:11 PM
We will run our pre test runs starting Monday - after we are sure we do not have new clogs
- I call Mark and he will come - the 28 is still our goal.
Quote from: mrwayne on June 27, 2012, 05:16:19 AM
Mark will come as soon as I ask - he is ready too.But I have not asked him to come yet, I might after tommorrows Run.
Quote from: mrwayne on June 30, 2012, 02:27:28 PM
We began running pretrial tests - prior to Mark Dansie's return - I had very much hoped to be done by Wednesday.
Quote from: mrwayne on July 27, 2012, 03:02:09 PM
After this Validation testing and presentation - we will be setting down to a coalition of teams
world wide to bring this technology to the world
Quote from: mrwayne on August 13, 2012, 02:55:02 PM
Mark has set his return for the week of the 20th.
Quote from: mrwayne on August 16, 2012, 03:41:48 PM
We are solving current issues for Mark and the rest of the team's next visit
Quote from: mrwayne on August 25, 2012, 02:32:40 PM
No, I am not sharing run Data with aynone, until we have the system ready to be released
Quote from: mrwayne on August 25, 2012, 10:43:58 PM
Marks third return was delayed because our "new" system would not charge the accumulator
Quote from: markdansie on August 27, 2012, 05:05:15 AM
I still have not seen the two day demo yet , but I never put a time frame on this.
However as with all things as time carries on the confidence level always diminishes.
Quote from: mrwayne on September 28, 2012, 02:42:16 PM
p.s. our optimized system is over 600% efficient.
Quote from: mrwayne on September 28, 2012, 05:11:26 PM
It will all begin in a short time - the validation is just around the corner - I am relieved and excited.
Quote from: mrwayne on October 1 2012 on his web site
We expect to be finished by the end of the week - assuming all goes semi well (parts delivery)
and we will be ready for the Validation!
Quote from: mrwayne on October 15 2012 on his web site
Of course this means we will run a couple days for ourselves before we turn it over to the validation team
- I have been in clear and constant communication with them.
Quote from: mrwayne on October 29 2012 on his web site
I spoke with Mark this morning regarding time lines, and travel arrangements
- we have selected a prevalidation member to come this weekend
Quote from: mrwayne on November 6 2012 on his web site
Do you feel a sense of urgency in our Development?
Have you waited long enough, are you ready to be done with all of the improvements and obstacles,
are you ready for the internal Validation, and the external validation? Me too.
Quote from: mrwayne on November 11, 2012, 04:07:58 PM
Mark is not a member of the "Final Validation team" - so do not make assumptions - Mark has arranged a completly
independant and extremely qualified Validation team.
Quote from: mrwayne on November 22, 2012, 04:22:19 AM
Yes,And thank you.Mark is a valuable part of our efforts.In Mark and mine's last conversation -
just prior to his heading off on his honeymoon - He has two other stops to make and then we
both hope we are ready for him to return her to Chickasha Oklahoma again. Will we be ready?
Quote from: mrwayne on March 10, 2014, 11:24:14 AM
This is my Final Farewell to O/U.comI am not legally able to show TK my "Suasages" again.It is clear MarkE has only one intention... I did have hope.Wayne

[powercat]

Again, he does not have to name anyone. What, just because he gives a name, it proves something to you? Then what, you want their address? Phone no.?? Or you will search and hunt them down???  Real nice. Get real dude. What a farce.

How bout you give us your name, number and address, where you went to school, whats your wifes name? How about your kids names? your mom and dads name? Where do you work?  Prove your credentials?. Or how about you Mark. Milehigh? Tk??? Anyone else want to step up to that plate??? Oh, it is only your 'demands' that count here. Yeah right.

Mags

I'm not claiming to have a free energy device, therefore I do not need to justify my position, I really don't mind how ludicrous the idea anyone might have of how to produce free energy / OU, I will always wish them the best of luck in their research,
but should they say they have done it and there device works I will ask for information that supports their claim, Wayne has never provided this information but has made many promises that this would happen, his latest one is October 2015, sorry if you don't like it but I cannot stand people who make claims they have something that they clearly do not.

[Magluvin]

Just got out of the shower and have to go to work. Will reply to relies later today.

Mags

[MarkE]

MarkE, here is what I sent to Fletcher (and some others) last Friday.  Just to be clear:  The full cycle I am considering is State 1 -> State 2 -> State 3 -> State 1.

If you do that then whether or not you come up with a mechanism for recovering the energy in the water you pump in and dump each cycle, then you are simply compounding the losses.

Quote (from previous e-mails)

I modified it to include a Mass for Riser 3 (the outer riser) so that the system would NOT lift from State 1 to State 1X.  I marked this minimal change and all locations needed for how it integrates into the other calculations by highlighting the first row of my additions with yellow.  Also, I added that first blank row as I prefer spreadsheets not to start without blank boarders (just me being me).  And I removed the annoying graphics since they are not needed.  And changed the time constant for the spillway from 0.5 sec to 5 seconds to make that process more "Ideal."

The graphics you find so annoying make plain to most, but apparently not Tom what is going on in each state.

Energy at State 1 (ST1PrefillEnergy) is still 3.4123 mJ.
Energy add to charge the system from State 1 to State 2 (ST2_EnergyAdded) is still 2.0984 mJ.
And the total Energy at State 2 (ST2_EnergyAddedPlusSt1E) is still 5.5107mJ.

Due to the added Mass of Riser 3 the lift is now only 2.41136mm.

The new Spillway Energy that could be collected (Spill_water_energy) is 1.6510mJ.
The Work performed in lifting the Riser 3 Mass (.101716N * .00241136m) is .24527mJ.
Energy at State 3 (ST3_EStoredTotal) is now 3.6145mJ.

If you sum the above 3 values you get (1.6510 + .24527 + 3.6145) = 5.5107mJ.

So it is an exact match.  All the Energy present in State 2 is accounted for in the transition to State 3.

Qh the joys of playing with numbers.  "Exact match" means no difference.   But the algebra does not lie and it shows that you never have an exact match.  You always come up short.  Why, because no matter how you slice it, you need net force which when integrated over the lift distance means net energy in order to lift the payload.  It is an inescapable loss no mater what ridiculous steps are taken such as moving the assembly very, very, slowly, or truncating digits in the values.

HOWEVER, please note that there is more Energy left in the system at State 3 (3.6145mJ) than we began with at State 1 (3.4123mJ).

Duh, look at how much energy was added.  I hope you aren't going to make a Wayne Travis or Tom Web type special pleading to count only part of a cycle as a cycle.

  And it takes NO ADDITIONAL ENERGY to return from State 3 to State 1.  IE if we "pull the plug" when at State 3, the input water will naturally vent (under pressure) and the system will settle back to State 1.  The amount of excess Energy that must be vented is the difference of the Energy values at State 3 and State 1 (3.6145mJ - 3.4123mJ) = .2022mJ.

That is just brilliant.  So let's perform the tally: 

State 1 is the initial state. And the zero energy reference.
State 1 to State 2 requires 2.0984   mJ energy added
State 2 to State 3 delivers  1.6510   mJ  energy removed to your spillway payload
State 3 to State 1 you have not specified any recovery mechanism
Now you are back at State 1

You have now completed a cycle are now down 0.4474mJ.   Your efficiency is:  78.7%.

End quote.

That is what I am considering now.  I'm not sure if it means anything or not.

You still have a fundamentally lossy scheme.

[MarkE]

Diversion Troll.
I know you are not stupid MarkE that only leaves one reason you refuse to admit what the Math clearly shows .... Troll

The way that you li so freely and shamelessly is just awesome Wayne.  The math and physics are completely against you yet you just keep repeating your fantastical tales of:  Wayne Travis fraud.