Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED

[LibreEnergia]

Battery charger === battery.

Battery flat

Charger charges battery

No external work is done???

You did kind of change things there.

The accumulator runs the assist rams, the ZED charges the depleted accumulator,, and if the ZED puts more fluid into the accumulator, then the ZED has charged the accumulator up.

No , EXTERNAL work is not done and I cannot believe why you would think it is. The system under consideration is '2 batteries + 1 generator'. The energy in the system oscillates back and forth between the two batteries. (in-fact a generator would only allow the charge to equalise in each battery but let us assume the conversion can be 100% efficient)  just as it does in a pair of ZEDs

However , If you remove the energy contained in a charged battery to an external load it stops immediately, just as a ZED does.

[LibreEnergia]

I get that,, but that is not the case *IF* the ZED moves more fluid into the accumulator than the assist rams use.

Then it is not 2 batteries it is 2 motors running with one generator and one battery,, the assist rams being a motor and the ZED being a motor and the production rams being the generator.

To test for that things would need to be monitored, as in fill height of the fluid in the accumulator and the reservoir, and then it would need to be run to see if the system keeps on keeping on while filling up the accumulator.

'IF' the zed behaves as you say then yes it would be producing net energy output that could be used to power a load.

However it doesn't and cannot ever function like that. Such a device runs headlong into the limitations of the First Law. Energy would be leaving the system but it is not being replenished.  If it is replenished if can't just coming from 'nowhere' as this would imply it is being created within the device and as yet no plausible explanation has been offered for how it does that.

[LibreEnergia]

Well,, as I have been told many times pressure is not energy,, and it is the pressure that leaves the system.

This is kind of the crux of the matter really,, the fluid must stay with the system, even if dumped into a reservoir,, but the pressure that went with it does not come back,, so *is* that energy leaving the system??

Think of it like a spring. As a spring is compressed it gains potential.  If we then remove that spring from the system and allow it to expand it can power an external load. If we then place it back in the system, it has lost it's potential. The spring still exists, but something inside the system would need to recompress it.

We could replace the spring with another mechanism that extracts energy from the system but a spring is a convenient way to think about it.

Wayne's world seems to imply that the 'spring' would somehow magically recompress as it is placed back in.
This is his 're-use the input' fallacy which hopefully by now you are starting to see is completely false.

[mrwayne]

Think of it like a spring. As a spring is compressed it gains potential.  If we then remove that spring from the system and allow it to expand it can power an external load. If we then place it back in the system, it has lost it's potential. The spring still exists, but something inside the system would need to recompress it.

We could replace the spring with another mechanism that extracts energy from the system but a spring is a convenient way to think about it.

Wayne's world seems to imply that the 'spring' would somehow magically recompress as it is placed back in.
This is his 're-use the input' fallacy which hopefully by now you are starting to see is completely false.

Interesting, and confusing... the output is Buoyancy that is immediately turned into stored hydraulic pressure - which we  used to both run the Horizontal transfer and a hydraulic motor to power the generator......
What do you think I am talking about - MarkE's imaginary machine - or mine?
Ours ZED - you utilize the buoyant lift - for what ever you want...
Now the question is - can we turn the buoyancy on cheaply??
In fact - can we turn it on cheaper then the transfer cost......
Well - in fact we can - and did - even our old system gererated twice the production (from the Buoyancy - than the transfer consumed...
Watch the original video closely...
And as far as the accumulator being a battery - - yep you bet..... stored the fluid till we needed it and maintained pressure..
Now the kicker - how do you tell if you are using the accumulator to power the system - or if you are filling it?
Easy answer - the accumulator pressure increases as it is filled....yep.
Here is what anyone could see --- the head pressures went up and down - in both ZEDS, corresponding with which direction the Pv was being transferred..
Second during the stroke - the production pressure exceeded the Accumulator...
The accumulator dropped pressure as the assist began - and then climbed as the production began.
And here is the kicker - we did not want the pressure to climb too high - so we bled off the production to the reservoir - not much just enough to keep the resistance on the production cylinders form climbing out of range.   
Librea... I guess you can go a head and conclude what you think is Magic, or fallacy.... I am sure it is my fault.
I do not know why understanding is limited to a Law...... what is the point of looking?
Take care.
Wayne

Take care...

[mrwayne]

Four days left for what ?  before you leave the forum for ever,,, before you get arrested,,, before you discover you missed it - we will all be waiting your return hopefully sometime in October 2015.  As according to your statements you can't released any relevant information until then

Quote from: mrwayne on March 10, 2014, 11:24:14 AM
This is my Final Farewell to O/U.comI am not legally able to show TK my "Suasages" again.It is clear MarkE has only one intention... I did have hope. Wayne

Yes Powercat, the sad day is coming......soon - now only three days left....