The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.

[centraflow]

There is no moving masses in a gravitational field without exchanging work.

correct, but did I say work was not exchanged, no, the implication is how much work was exchanged and where the work was applied, and what work you end up with in relation to the work applied.


If the work applied was to move the center of gravity in relation to a mass, does that mass absorb that energy? or does that mass have it's own energy which could be more than moving the relation of the center of gravity to it?


Lets use a TK type analogy,  if a one ton block of concrete was balanced in the doorway of an airplane at 1000 ft up in the air, then a very slight tip of the plane changed the center of gravity relationship to that block of concrete, naturally it falls out, the potencial energy of that block is huge. Don't try to say it took energy to get it up there in the first place, I am not talking about that, just the energy to tip the plane, but the energy from stable to totally unstable and it's result, I expect quite devistating if it fell on your house


SOOOO don't move the mass, move the center of gravity in relation to that mass, the mass has potencial energy and can be unlocked with little energy input, that's what it is about.


Now how do we do that? remember the mass sees the center of gravity move, but the center of gravity does not see what the mass is doing and dosn't care


regards


Mike

[MarkE]

Exactly Mark,, gravity is not consumed.

There is a cost the surfer pays for his free ride.  So it is not totally free,, he just pays less than what "he" gets out of it.

Maybe you think riding a canoe down stream with the current is free energy too.

[centraflow]

The field is a function of the masses.  There is no known way to separate one from the other.

you do not separate them, just change the relationship to one another


regards


Mike

[MarkE]

correct, but did I say work was not exchanged, no, the implication is how much work was exchanged and where the work was applied, and what work you end up with in relation to the work applied.


If the work applied was to move the center of gravity in relation to a mass, does that mass absorb that energy? or does that mass have it's own energy which could be more than moving the relation of the center of gravity to it?

Yes it's in relation to that mass called earth.  And moving it either releases energy because the GPE in total decreases, or requires work because the GPE increases.

Lets use a TK type analogy,  if a one ton block of concrete was balanced in the doorway of an airplane at 1000 ft up in the air, then a very slight tip of the plane changed the center of gravity relationship to that block of concrete, naturally it falls out, the potencial energy of that block is huge. Don't try to say it took energy to get it up there in the first place, I am not talking about that, just the energy to tip the plane, but the energy from stable to totally unstable and it's result, I expect quite devistating if it fell on your house

You get to extract energy from reducing the GPE of something from one potential to another at most once.  A cycle is not complete until you return every object to its starting position.  If you choose to define the cycle start as the moment before the object starts falling, then you aren't done until you get the object back up from where you dropped it.

SOOOO don't move the mass, move the center of gravity in relation to that mass, the mass has potencial energy and can be unlocked with little energy input, that's what it is about.


Now how do we do that? remember the mass sees the center of gravity move, but the center of gravity does not see what the mass is doing and dosn't care


regards


Mike

[MarkE]

you do not separate them, just change the relationship to one another


regards


Mike

That's nice, show that you can "change the relationship".