Current ridicule

[MarkE]

suggest you watch this video titled
1000 Miles Per Gallon sHell Research Late 70's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYyVnCeWV1A
a shell oil scientist discusses getting 149 mpg from a 1947 studebaker which is a very heavy car.   that was in the late 40's.  the book he wrote which was in the library of congress can no longer be found there.   he mentions by the late 70's getting 1000 miles per gallon.   so who are you going to believe.   the people who make many billions of dollars per year on gas sales ?   is it really in their interest to let us know how to get hundreds of mpg from a gallon of gas?   or maybe believe a few good backyard mechanics or pro mechanics who decided to tinker their way to hundreds of mpg?   also one of the people being interviewed in that video was with tom ogle on their 200 mile trip which used 2 gallons of gas - now a very old guy.

I believe what repeatable reliably obtained data shows.  If one puts very hard tires on a car to remove rolling resistance, drives slowly so as to avoid aerodynamic loading, and does not start and stop, then very high mileage can be obtained.  Under those conditions, the car has been turned into a four wheel bicycle.  Look at the designs for the solar racing vehicles where every Joule counts.  Such designs are of little practical value in a production vehicle because people stop and start their cars and expect to be able to drive them at least at posted highway speeds. 

1000 mpg at 100% HHV conversion requires a mechanical load of less than 120kJ/mile.  At actually obtainable conversions, it is more like 40kJ/mile.  That's about the same energy as in five AA NiMH batteries when charged.

[MarkE]

I generally don't watch videos sorry.  Documentaries dispense information about seven times slower than I can read.Someone who knows how to multiply.  Which apparently isn't this guy.  A 2 Ton car getting 1000 mpg of ordinary gasoline is simply wrong.Sure.  You sell a car that gets 1000 mpg and you have an instant competitive advantage over your competition.   Even if things go back to the status quo.  There are at least fifty small manufacturers in the US alone who would love to get some free publicity and sell some cars. Tinkering is a fine hobby.  Tinkerers are sometimes useful people to hire but a backyard mechanic isn't a research scientist or statistician.  It would be wrong to trust his figures as if he/she knew how to measure things.
Telling a very old story.  So often that he probably couldn't disbelieve it even if he wanted to.

People seem to miss that what kills mileage in a heavy car is:  braking losses, and rolling resistance.  Trains get very high effective mpg because their steel wheels have very low rolling resistance and they go long distances without braking.

I get a kick out of people who hold up an expired patent and claim that it has an utilized miracle as was done in the video.  Anyone who desires can practice an expired patent.

[steeltpu]

sarkz   people on the internet rearrange letters in their name like anagrams to hide what they are really saying or their agenda.  letters in your name rearrange to nazi krees.   just thought you might have a hidden agenda but we won't go on about that.

mh and marke  a couple facts you can verify.    " People have achieved over  9000 miles per gallon, (see current  Guinness Book of World Records). If  this technology was applied to ordinary road vehicles, well over 200 mpg would result.
  We know these test vehicles are light,  but they still weigh a couple of hundred pounds 'curb weight' with the driver.   This means that demonstrated and documented efficient use of fuel generates 35 times better mileage than a typical car."

now also consider a recent test by a company that had a fully loaded 18 wheeler so that is 80,000 pounds or 40 tons get 13.9 mpg.   now assuming you don't believe me on that even though i'm sure you can google and find it my point is that even normal 18 wheelers get aroun 8 mpg with 80,000 pounds.  that's 320 mpg per ton.  in the first case it would be 556 mpg per ton.   using standard technology.  the first truck was doing 13.9 mpg largely due to aerodynamics iirc.  however standard diesel pickups only get maybe 20mpg per ton.   ever wonder why that is?   everything goes by big trucks and if they weren't getting at least 7 or 8 mpg the price of everything would drive the economy to ruins.   

the energy advisor to president bush senior stated in the wall street journal that he would advise the president to oppose any bill that reduces income from the sale of fuel.   our government gets a good share of every dollar spent on gasoline. 

then there is the well documented shell car that got 376 mpg

               starting about 1939, Shell engineers started an annual
competition between themselves, to see who could achieve the highest
mileage.
They would work on their own project in their spare time in their own garages.
Shell then held a mileage marathon each year at their company picnic.
The 1973 winner achieved 376.59 mpg with a modified 1959 Opel P1 at an
average speed of 30 mph. This happened during the 'Oil Crisis...'
The engineer cut away all the weight he could (it still weighed 2500 lbs) and
gave it a chain drive. He used a standard 4 cylinder ic engine (that was part of
the competition rules) and he VAPORIZED the fuel to achieve the high
mileage.

lots more if you want to know abou it but i'm done playing here cause everyone left in this thread won't believe anything even if it's smacks them upside the head.   or they have an agenda to suppress. 
for those who want the truth try google and try some of this stuff.   

[sarkeizen]

People seem to miss that what kills mileage in a heavy car is:  braking losses, and rolling resistance.  Trains get very high effective mpg because their steel wheels have very low rolling resistance and they go long distances without braking.

Good point.  I had not really thought about that.  Makes sense with the rise of regenerative braking in hybrids.  When it comes to things like "you just remove the carburetor" I'm assuming ceteris paribus.

I get a kick out of people who hold up an expired patent and claim that it has an utilized miracle as was done in the video.  Anyone who desires can practice an expired patent.

Reminds me of Gavrocks current tirade: "If someone wrote a paper with 'simulated universe' in the title it must be highly likely there's a simulated universe".   To be fair his delusion has helped by a number of low-brow and not-so-low-brow web sites stating that the paper had produced evidence instead of a series of constraints which may be testable and have some useful result.

[MarkE]

sarkz   people on the internet rearrange letters in their name like anagrams to hide what they are really saying or their agenda.  letters in your name rearrange to nazi krees.   just thought you might have a hidden agenda but we won't go on about that.

mh and marke  a couple facts you can verify.    " People have achieved over  9000 miles per gallon, (see current  Guinness Book of World Records). If  this technology was applied to ordinary road vehicles, well over 200 mpg would result.

Look it's all pretty basic:  You have so much chemical energy available in the fuel, you have a mechanical load, and you have the drive train in between.  Start with the mechanical load for acceptable driving characteristics.  Set the load to the minimum that it can be at a price that people will accept.  Then move up to the drive train.  Again begin with the minimum acceptable performance / highest fuel utilization characteristics that offer acceptable performance and cost.  Then go engineer to those criteria.  Son of a gun that is what the car makers have been doing.  What is ironic here is that you keep waxing nostalgic about an era with much less efficient engines and mechanical loads.

  We know these test vehicles are light,  but they still weigh a couple of hundred pounds 'curb weight' with the driver.   This means that demonstrated and documented efficient use of fuel generates 35 times better mileage than a typical car."

There are lots of reasons for that.  A $500,000 vehicle is out of the reach of a typical consumer being one.

now also consider a recent test by a company that had a fully loaded 18 wheeler so that is 80,000 pounds or 40 tons get 13.9 mpg.   now assuming you don't believe me on that even though i'm sure you can google and find it my point is that even normal 18 wheelers get aroun 8 mpg with 80,000 pounds.  that's 320 mpg per ton.  in the first case it would be 556 mpg per ton.   using standard technology.  the first truck was doing 13.9 mpg largely due to aerodynamics iirc.  however standard diesel pickups only get maybe 20mpg per ton.   ever wonder why that is?

I know exactly why that is.  You don't seem to understand that you are comparing apples and oranges.

everything goes by big trucks and if they weren't getting at least 7 or 8 mpg the price of everything would drive the economy to ruins.   

Energy requirements per mile * ton are lowest for locomotives, then multiple trailer semis, then single trailer semis, then vans, then passenger cars, then scooters.  Do you see the pattern yet?

the energy advisor to president bush senior stated in the wall street journal that he would advise the president to oppose any bill that reduces income from the sale of fuel.   our government gets a good share of every dollar spent on gasoline. 

There is little secret that the Bushes are tied in deep with the oil industry.

then there is the well documented shell car that got 376 mpg

               starting about 1939, Shell engineers started an annual
competition between themselves, to see who could achieve the highest
mileage.
They would work on their own project in their spare time in their own garages.
Shell then held a mileage marathon each year at their company picnic.
The 1973 winner achieved 376.59 mpg with a modified 1959 Opel P1 at an
average speed of 30 mph. This happened during the 'Oil Crisis...'
The engineer cut away all the weight he could (it still weighed 2500 lbs) and
gave it a chain drive. He used a standard 4 cylinder ic engine (that was part of
the competition rules) and he VAPORIZED the fuel to achieve the high
mileage.

Note:  Low vehicle speed to limit aerodynamic drag: 30mph has 1/4th the drag of 60mph.  Very hard tires.  Reduced displacement engine.  Hyper miling techniques.  Those are all useful for competitions and demonstrations.  It is the public who insist on driving high hp, heavy vehicles.

lots more if you want to know abou it but i'm done playing here cause everyone left in this thread won't believe anything even if it's smacks them upside the head.   or they have an agenda to suppress. 
for those who want the truth try google and try some of this stuff.

Facts prevail.