KARPEN PILE

[Philip Hardcastle]

@pomodoro, well done for taking a practical approach.


I think the Karpen cell enigma is the best thing on this site (not counting my own work lol) and it is more likely than not something that keen replicators can work on.


The facts that I see is that there is a voltage  and small current produced by a gold / platinum device that has yet to be explained, or contradicted. 60 years of operation of a device should raise more interest than it has. Sensible debate and attempts to falsify should be the way forward, not the negativity that comes from the usual suspects.


I am of the view that if a sealed eternal supply of less than 1cc volume could be made that gives out 1.5V at 2mA, then it has immense application in the form of implanted power supplies for things like the bionic ear (cochlear), pacemakers and neural stimulators.


If you guys can produce such a thing that you can prove is a 2LOT violation, then I can provide all the funding you would need to commercialise it, even though I am currently working (as profitis knows) to commercialise a competing technology.


Phil

[pomodoro]

Thanks, both of you. I'm happy put all my standard findings on here for anyone to view and utilize.  I've got access to electrochem equipment which I only use for CV and ASV but can do lots more.  However I am not an expert in electrochem, and needed to brush up.  So when I came across Karpen's invention I got some motivation to find out how it works.  Now I don't want to screw up anyone's potential to make money,  so if anything unusual does come up, I might mention it but not very specifically, but any expected findings I will mention specifically.

Regarding the Pt/Ag experiment @profitis, I shall get to it as soon as I get back to work next week and report the results.

[mscoffman]

Thanks, both of you. I'm happy put all my standard findings on here for anyone to view and utilize.  I've got access to electrochem equipment which I only use for CV and ASV but can do lots more.  However I am not an expert in electrochem, and needed to brush up.  So when I came across Karpen's invention I got some motivation to find out how it works.  Now I don't want to screw up anyone's potential to make money,  so if anything unusual does come up, I might mention it but not very specifically, but any expected findings I will mention specifically.

Regarding the Pt/Ag experiment @profitis, I shall get to it as soon as I get back to work next week and report the results.

This is a great experiment and I was wondering about the results of this myself.

I wouldn't waste my time on electroplating anything but plated Pt electrodes versus a plated Au electrodes. The whole purpose is to
have the Sulfuric acid electrolyte not be able to touch the surface metal so that the cell can operate indefinitely. The 18/9 Stainless
Steel might be an interesting entity though. I doubt you can electroplate Stainless steel onto anything, but stainless steel might make
an interesting bulk core material. If the are pinholes in the Pt or Au electroplate surface perhaps a Stainless Steel core would inhibit
corrosion for a while eventually stopping corrosion at those pinholes. Obviously SS is more resistive then Cu but it may be more stable.
Please be aware of the negative consequences of any of the nasty Hexavalent Chromium ions from SS.


The other question is of how thick the surface coating layer is required so that the core materials electronegativity doesn't
"play-through" and affect the electrochemistry of the surface layer. I'm thinking of the ion porosity of those thin-glass
PH probes.

Once a minimum plated on thickness is determined one could do a cell cost calculation of the precious metals per square
electrode area.

I would not be surprised at the presents of some electrolysis of water in an operating cell. Though initially these might be due
more to the presents of impurities. There are catalytic systems for recombining hydrogen and oxygen gas if required. In fact
there are those catalysts are available in some acid/lead battery caps.

I think as has been mentioned that oxygen gas is playing a role in the electrochemistry of this system.
Good luck on your experiments

:S:MarkSCoffman

[Paul-R]

I doubt you can electroplate Stainless steel onto anything

No, because it is an alloy. I reckon the iron would come off on its own.

But you could probably use vacuum plating or vacuum deposition.

[profitis]

True @phil its high time that people started to attack and disect ol karpens battery and its principal adequetly and bring it out of its mystery category.a few already have but they haven't been paid attention enough.