KARPEN PILE

[profitis]

Looking forward to hearing results @pomodoro I've said a little more on this subject than I shouldve myself but had no choice in order to be taken seriously.

[profitis]

I owe you gratitude for starting this thread and supporting it @phil and I don't think competition would be a problem as I think every 2lot buster from you,me or others will have its specific duty commercialy,even some seemingly shitty ones with low power.anyway I might run to you for assistance in any case if something good comes along and take you up on your offer to help.

[pomodoro]

This is my rough plan at examining the pile.

1. Plate  thick 24k gold onto a platinum electrode.  Use non Platinized platinum for the other electrode, dip Pt in aqua regia to roughen surface.
Result - one cell of the Karpen Pile ready for testing when dilute Sulfuric Acid is used as electrolyte.
Expected observation- Very low voltage if any due to similar nobility of metals (reason why Karpenneeded two huge piles to get 1 volt).

2.It is believed cell turns thermal energy into electricity

By shorting electrodes with wire, a current should be able to be measured. Unfortunately this will be very low and any loss in temperature will be miniscule and immesurable with my equipment.

3.Electrode reactions. 
Normally, when 2 dissimilar metals are connected and dipped in an electrolyte, one becomes the anode and the other cathode. For example take  Zinc and Copper in a salt solution.  The less noble of these , Zinc, will become the anode and dissolve more rapidly then it would have naturally. The Copper will become the cathode and be protected. There must always be a reaction at each electrode and at the copper  it is water being reduced to hydrogen.  This is an example of galvanic corrosion and is the basis of Volta's Pile. 
Karpen uses noble electrodes but do any of them react ever so slowly?  If so, then there is nothing special. If not, then we have a problem (or I need more brushing up in electrochemistry). Surprisingly, platinum is not completely inert as it can build a thin oxide layer and also allow hydrogen to dissolve on its surface, however it is still very noble in acid.   We know that water can be turned into its constituents by electrolysis, which requires a fair bit of external energy- but water spontaneously decomposing is unheard of.  Sulfuric acid is also extremely stable and will not spontaneously decompose. So what reaction are occuring and providing the current?

4.Tests

So my initial tests will rely on conventional electrochemical techniques. Namely testing each electrode with a potentiostat to determine potentials at which reactions occur and currents involved. These tests are called Tafel plots and you may be interested in googling the term .
If the cell does function, I would like to leave it running a few months and test the acid for gold or platinum. Because of the very low currents, sub milligram quantities of metals corroding can power it for months. This can be calculated by using the formula Q=n(e-)*96500  (faraday's law of electrolysis) Q is coulombs of electricity (amps*seconds).   The result of all this should be to determine if gold or platinum are corroding or not.







   

[profitis]

What happened to the original plan of my suggested Pt/Ag/H2 experiment @pomodoro? It will give superb currents that will rule out corrosion instantly because in this case the disparity of power between inert nitrogen and active H2 is vast.  Use platinized plat for the Pt/Au/O2 experiment for maximum current.compare under nitrogen.

[profitis]

Use totaly smooth platinum foil and totaly smooth gold foil in H2SO4 solution,short under air for a few days and chek for pitting in electrodes is another easy method to chek for corrosion in the original karpen setup.chek surfaces under microscope before and after shorting.