Magnet Myths and Misconceptions

[Pirate88179]

Bill, I don't know of a specific experiment, but it is likely that something like that has been done.  Don't forget that NASA also uses cargo planes they put into free fall to get zero G without going into orbit.

Ah yes, the "vomit comet".  These aircraft fly a parabolic flight path that gives 0 g for a very short time.  Did you know that Chuck Yeager (of breaking the sound barrier fame) flew the first parabolic flight paths to test this new theory?  (Well, it was new back then)

I just thought it would be cool and educational to see a 3-d rendering of the field lines.  I am sure this has been modeled on computers also somewhere along the way.

It just occured to me that some guy on youtube a few years ago, showed us how to make our own "ferro fluid".  He basically suspended a bunch of iron filings in a bottle of baby oil.  He would hold this up to a magnet and the suspended particles would show the field lines.  In thinking about it, I suppose one could get a larger, clear container, and make the same mixture and then, suspend a strong magnet into the center of the container.  This would give a somewhat 3-d view I should think.  This guys point was that the specific gravity of the filings was close to that of the baby oil, (mineral oil with fragrance added) which allowed them to remain suspended.

I might try this when I get a chance.

Bill

[MarkE]

@Mark
I found posts #344,346, 418 and my picture at #332 seem to be in favor of something happening near region of the magnet center.
I understand your perspective and I agree with most of it however I also think one has to keep an open mind. Some people seem to think this is a for or against scenario however I'm not completely for or against anything one hundred percent. The pictures show something which seems out of the ordinary from my perspective and I have not heard an explanation which I feel describes what I have seen completely.
What I do not agree with is people calling other people stupid or ignorant simply because they disagree on a topic. Is there something there, does it actually curl? --- who knows however I thought that was why we are all here isn't it?. I found the picture #332 I posted the most compelling and while the field may come parallel near the center the curl would seem to be undeniable and unexpected.Most of these pictures are all over the net and I have seen most of them before at one site or another. In any case to really understand something it should be a hands on experiment which we can do ourselves and I will have to think on an experiment we could do to prove this for ourselves one way or another. We know the iron filings experiment is against curl however that does not mean all experiments are in my opinion. It would seem to me the smaller the particles the greater the curl near the center which may be a good place to start.

AC

We have for example this picture from #332:  We see clumping of ferrofluid by the poles and not along the sides of the magnet, and are offered the conclusion that there is therefore a "clearly visible" Bloch wall in the center of the magnet.  Using any reliable information you have on magnets, kindly offer any reasonable basis for the conclusion offered based on that picture.

[sparks]

I wonder if NASA has ever conducted a 3d experiment in either the shuttle or the space station using a strong magnet and iron filings or ferro fluid?

In a container, with iron filings or ferro fluid, and the magnet in the center, what would we see in micro gravity?

My only problem with the iron filings example which, of course, has been used for years, is that it is 2 dimensional.  Not that it would support or deter this argument going on here...I just always thought it would be cool to see this in 3-d.  Would the filings, or the fluid move or circulate?  Or remain stable like we see here on earth in 2-d.  In other words, is there a current or flow to this field?  Or, would we just a representation of field lines as TK says that we see on a topo map.

Does anyone remember/know if this has been done?

Thanks,

Bill

not in space but somewhat better than paper.  I imagine if you take iron powder and put it in water a more three dimensional field observation could be made
  https://sharepoint.umich.edu/lsa/physics/demolab/SitePages/5H15.50%20-%20Projection%20of%20the%20Magnetic%20Field%20Due%20to%20a%20Current%20in%20a%20Toroid.aspx


  I would add a switch to the circuit to get the iron filings moving 

[EMJunkie]

@Mark
I found posts #344,346, 418 and my picture at #332 seem to be in favor of something happening near region of the magnet center.
I understand your perspective and I agree with most of it however I also think one has to keep an open mind. Some people seem to think this is a for or against scenario however I'm not completely for or against anything one hundred percent. The pictures show something which seems out of the ordinary from my perspective and I have not heard an explanation which I feel describes what I have seen completely.
What I do not agree with is people calling other people stupid or ignorant simply because they disagree on a topic. Is there something there, does it actually curl? --- who knows however I thought that was why we are all here isn't it?. I found the picture #332 I posted the most compelling and while the field may come parallel near the center the curl would seem to be undeniable and unexpected.Most of these pictures are all over the net and I have seen most of them before at one site or another. In any case to really understand something it should be a hands on experiment which we can do ourselves and I will have to think on an experiment we could do to prove this for ourselves one way or another. We know the iron filings experiment is against curl however that does not mean all experiments are in my opinion. It would seem to me the smaller the particles the greater the curl near the center which may be a good place to start.

AC

AC - This post has regained all my faith - By Far the best and most logical post I have ever read on ou.com!

I apologise for ANY Obscenities I may have inadvertently directed at anyone. Yes it was getting a heated debate and I was off foot before I even entered this debate due to criticism directed before I entered this debate.

Like I have said in prior posts, I do believe all here are good people and not deliberately trying to obscure the path of work in front of us! Just set in their ways 

Kind Regards

  Chris Sykes

[EMJunkie]

To try to move forward 

What Experiment has shown me:

I know the zone around the Equator is a Null or a Zero Force Magnetic Zone. Some sort of a Cancelation occurs here. At the same time there is a large repulsion force here.
I know that Induction is much lower at the Equator.
I know that some strange effects are visible at the Equator.

The Ferrofluid Experiments are un-disputable, the show effects that are visible else where in Nature, EG: Sun's filament Eruptions and so on...

What I believe may be possible:

I believe there may be more than one force here, one or more of which may be proportional to the Inverse Square Law URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

We know this to be true for Gravity already and Magnetic Fields are also said to already use this effect. I believe its in effect and we can see this on the Ferrofluid in the cone shaped Spikes on each Pole!

The Cone Shaped Spikes are a Cone Shape for a reason!

If the Fields curl back in to the Equator as has been shown in many pictures then the Inverse Square Law would explain why they are hard to detect here. I have a picture that appears to show this but it is hard to make out and not definitive. Picture attached.

The Spin on each field line Curling back into the Equator could be of inverse to each other! Meaning that as each Field line of each opposite Pole Curls back into the Equator, the Vector potential of each Field Line would have a Spin in the opposing direction to each other and thus cancel each other in their close proximitys.

Experiment can show this effect by moving two Permanent Magnets in opposite directions relative to a stationary conductor - Null Induction. Also Bi-Filar NON Inductive Coils, not being inductive because the Spins mostly cancel to each other.

Please Note: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r38qMrjrSqs

In my video, the Magnetic Viewing Paper show the same effects as the Ferrofluid - The Bloch Wall Grows the longer the Magnet

Howard Johnson's work is supported by many other Magnetic Viewing Experiments today but I can not prove this is whats going on, I can prove Experimentally that the Bloch Wall is there and it can be felt and seen also with the right equipment it can be measured!

Kind Regards

  Chris