Magnet Myths and Misconceptions

[MarkE]

In all fairness MH,to use the terms north and south is just as correct as useing conventional current flow-even though it is the opposite to true current flow. Thing is,no one can tell us what the arrows show on the field lines that dont exist in everyday pictures of the magnetic field around a magnet-but every one is happy to except them. Some say the arrows drawn on the field lines are suppose to represent flow direction-->flow direction of what? Some say they represent the direction of force--> a magnetic field has no set direction of force.

It seems all well and good for the(so called) !know all! scientist to place lines around a magnet to represent the magnetic field,but when i draw my lines that sepperate the TWO different fields around a magnet ,and show where each individual field is strongest,every one of the guru's say thats crap.

What's crap Tinman is to conflate contours that show one thing with contours that show something else.  If you want to make diagrams using line contours of flux density that's all fine and well provided that you:

1) Identify that flux density is what you are mapping and the convention your drawings use to map it.
2) You do not attempt to represent that the same mapping represents flux.
3) You do not attempt to represent that lines ordinary magnetic contour maps that each represent a quanta of flux instead represent a quanta of flux density.

Well,to bad,my mapping of the two different fields dose form a figure 8 pattern relative to the magnetic field strength of each individual field-north and south.

Looking at the conventional magnetic field depiction below,it is clear that it is wrong.

No it is correct.  You have interpreted that those maps mean or should represent flux density when the convention is that each line represents a quanta of flux. Since in your experiments you are often interested in how much force acts on something what you would like is a map of force on whatever it is you want to use:  a reed switch a plate another magnet etc.  Unfortunately because of the way that the flux of a magnetic field curves around, the force that you would like to know about depends not just on the magnet that you have but anything that you put near that magnet that has a permeability much greater than 1.  Consequently there is no way to generate a plot that would represent mechanical force acting on any object brought close to the magnet based on the magnet alone.  The situation may be dissatisfying or even frustrating to you, but that is a matter of nature, not man-made conventions.

This crap about some flow of some thing that no one knows what the hell it is,is wrong.

Magnetic lines are said to "flow" as a matter of convenience because analogies have been made to fluid flows. A compass needle aligns to the direction of "flow of magnetic wind" the way that a flag aligns to the flow of wind.

Something changes mid point in the field,and what ever that change is,it is opposite to that of the opposite side.

There is no abrupt behavior at or near the middle of a dipole.  Look at all the experiments reported in this thread.  Whether you consider that a single magnet of say 5cm length is 500 0.1mm magnets stacked end to end, or just one magnet, the observable flux AND flux density behave as though it is one magnet where the flux curves smoothly from one pole to another.  The miracle of vector math is such that one gets the same behavior whether one stacks many thin magnets together or has one single magnet.  The lines one sees on a conventional diagram reflect the real observable flux.

So the arrows showing this continual unidirectional flow of some yet to be discovered matter-->are wrong.

I'm sorry but the lines of flux really do fairly represent quanta of magnetic flux.  If one had the time and patience, one could take a conventional field map and derive a corresponding map of flux density.

There are NO definitive explinations as to how or why a magnetic field dose what it dose-->as usual,there are only theories,and theories are only best guesses. The very same stands true for gravity--two masses atract each other . That's good,and is correct,but why?.  Us knowing all about magnetic fields because a CRT screen work's,or im on my computor because we know all about magnetic field's,is just pure rubbish. We know that 1 mass is attracted to another due to gravitational forces as well,and heavy shit stays on the ground because of this,but do we know how or why gravity dose what it dose-->no,but we still have stuff that works because of it.

Sure there is lots that we don't know.  That does not change in the least what we do know or how well we canuse what we know to make deadly accurate predictions as to what will happen when we use or manipulate things such as masses and magnets as we choose.

So ,until some one can show(with actual proof) how and why a magnetic field dose what it dose,and what it actually is,then everyone has the right to put forth there argument,and no one has the right to say there wrong. Scientist make up shit all the time,only to find later that they got it all wrong-but it sticks anyway(conventional current flow).

If one wishes to put forth an idea, the idea stands to be criticized by what it can or cannot accurately predict.  Conventional electromagnetics predict with stunning accuracy. 

[MileHigh]

Tinman:

The short answer is that it is the same flux but the flux direction is different.  It's a basic fundamental property of magnetism.   In your diagram if the flux is increasing and the direction is from top to bottom in the left coil, then it is increasing and the direction is from bottom to top in the right coil, then when one coil outputs say -4 volts, then the other coil will output +4 volts.

It's exactly the same changing flux.

MileHigh

[MarkE]

Lets have a look at the picture below-for those that believe that there are not two different fields in a magnet.

We have two identical inductors with two long thin cores that protude into the magnetic field-at the same point either side of the center of the dipole(dipole-1.a pair of equal and oppositely charged or magnetized poles separated by a distance).The arrows on the magnetic field lines depict some sort of flow direction/or force direction of an unknown substance-yet to be discovered. Now these arrows pass through the core material in the same direction at the same point-BUT the sinewaves produced by the identical inductors are totally opposite-180 out of phase with each other. This clearly shows the arrow depiction/flow direction and force direction are not from one end of the dipole to the other. This shows us two opposite forces passing through the inductors cores. There IS two different fields around a magnet-not one,and these two fields/forces gradually cancel one another out as we get to the center of the magnets TWO pole ends-->the dipole.

And yet in an electromagnet formed by a single turn of wire neither North nor South can be found.

[NoBull]

2) You do not attempt to represent that the same mapping represents flux.

...or magnetic flux density gradients.

[ramset]

TinMan
something to read at Lunch


http://www.pureenergysystems.com/academy/papers/How_Parallel_Path_Gets_Over_Unity/


Have a safe trip....