Magnet Myths and Misconceptions

[shylo]

This thread is getting way off track.
When you pass a magnet across a coil of wire with open ends not connected to anything, what happens to the electrons ,where do they go?
If you short the coil connect the 2 ends together what happens to the electrons?
If you connect the ends of the coil to a diode, then to a cap ,...the cap charges ...right?
So what happens when you feed the cap , from the passing magnet as it enters then feed or discharge cap back to coil as magnet leaves?
Will the induced current flow be enough to propel the magnet away?
No there is a lose and the opposite field generated by the initial induction.
The lose and the opposite field need to be stored in a seperate component.
It's all in the switching
Imho artv

[tinman]

But at room temperature the state change from liquid to gas traps about 16% of the energy of any otherwise ideal water electrolysis system.  That 16% energy is not available as chemical bond energy when one goes to collect energy back by oxidizing the H₂ / reducing the O₂.Look, you've got to work in consistent things:  Power or energy.  You can't just go back and forth without performing a time integral on power to get to energy, or differentiating the energy with respect to time to get power.

For example, you could say: 

A is the input energy during the experiment.  (You may find the energy by measuring voltage and current, deriving power and then integrating that found power over the time of the experiment.)
B is the chemical bond energy available from the two gasses.
B1 is the heat generated by the cell during the experiment.
B2 is the heat energy generated by the battery and the circuitry during the experiment.

When you go to account for heat you will want to be careful to account for all the heat generated, whcih may require continuing measurements long after the input power is turned off.

And this is a clasic example.
The question being asked is-was all the energy transformed from one form to another?
Do we get out what we put in.
We already know the answer is yes,regardless of time and power to energy conversions,and the need for endless debate on what's what,and how things should be presented.
The facts are-we have an input,and an output and a storage.
All the outputs and storage have to equal the input,regardless of what the inputs and outputs are-->unless you have discovered a way to destroy energy-->this is your own beloved physics.
What go's in ,must come out or be stored.

Power can be converted into energy.Power is a measure of how much we CAN produce. It is not a measure of how much energy there actually is, but a way of describing how much could be produced.
So all that had to be done was take the power avaliable that i gave you,and use that to determond if we produced the same amount of energy from that power as we produced in the form of heat,and stored in the form of the gas. But what happened insted was a full refit of the space shuttles computing system--> and MH wonders why there is a 100 pages of !go no where! babble.

[verpies]

Power can be converted into energy.Power is a measure of how much we CAN produce.

No, power is a measure how quickly energy is transferred.

[tinman]

No there is a lose and the opposite field generated by the initial induction.
The lose and the opposite field need to be stored in a seperate component.
It's all in the switching
Imho artv

When you pass a magnet across a coil of wire with open ends not connected to anything, what happens to the electrons ,where do they go?

One would think that they go no where,as they have no path to follow.

This thread is getting way off track.

Yes,and i take the rap for that with my electrolisis cell debarkle.

If you short the coil connect the 2 ends together what happens to the electrons?

Now you have created a current loop,and the moving electrons create heat?

So what happens when you feed the cap , from the passing magnet as it enters then feed or discharge cap back to coil as magnet leaves?

The flow of current is in the opposite direction,so discharging the cap back into the coil would push the magnet away,but there wouldnt be enough energy in the cap to give a total opposite reaction,as some of the energy would be transformed into heat.

If you connect the ends of the coil to a diode, then to a cap ,...the cap charges ...right?
Will the induced current flow be enough to propel the magnet away?

I could be like the EE guy's here.
The cap wont charge just being conected to a coil unless that coil is recieving a changing magnetic field. Assuming you are passing the magnet across the coil,is this coil an air core coil,or dose it have a steel core?.

[shylo]

The cap does charge , the magnetic field does not have to change polarity it just has to change in its' strength. That alone is a differential in itself.
Shorting a coil just for an instant causes a spike which can be collected.
The short can occur many times during induction.
Steel deadens the effect.
artv