Your take on the latest book-self running machines?

[tinman]

Final posting to wrap things up...

About Bedini motors and energy from me:  "Each time the coil discharges into the charging battery there is a finite amount of energy in that spike.  Then the battery has a charging efficiency, and a discharging efficiency that is proportional to the load current.  We can keep it simple and state that the two efficiencies combined will be say 80% as an example.   So if the source battery supplies 200,000 Joules, what you can get out of the charging battery is 200,000 x 0.3 x 0.8 = 48,000 Joules.  That's why over the years you guys have used the line, "You can't take a charging battery that was just charged and put it in the source battery position."  You would claim that a "'radiantly' charged battery cannot be put in the source battery position."  You guys would state that to discourage people from making that test.  And I have read reports by people that do make the test and they are disappointed that the motor dies out quite quickly.  The answer is in my example above:  Source energy from source battery = 200,000 Joules.  Extractable energy from charging battery = 48,000 Joules.  When you run the Bedini motor with all the inefficiencies you lose 152,000 Joules."

In their latest clip which is all about "getting over unity when factoring in the mechanical output" (to promote the new book) the setup now has a pick-up coil driving a FWBR driving a bank of LEDs.  So indeed, they do have a mechanical load in this setup and are showing a useful output.  There is a cap pulser circuit for charging the charging battery.

There is a mechanical load on the motor (finally).

But what are the problems with this clip?

They show the voltage and current readings for the source battery.  That's okay.
They don't show any measurements for the pickup coil + FWBR driving the LED load.  Big problem.
They don't show any measurements for the cap pulser output.  Big problem.

Aaron probably has 15 years experience.  Peter probably has 30 years experience.  So between them they have 45 years worth of experience and they are pitching a new book about "how to get over unity from a Bedini motor" and they don't make any proper measurements of the output?  What a joke!  They don't even bother to make an estimate of the cap pulser charging power based on the cap start and end voltage and the pulsing frequency.

The truth: If they did a an emulation of the charging battery with a low-pass filter they could make an accurate measurement of the average power output of the cap pulser.  If they got rid of the LED load and just used a variable load resistor and a true-RMS multimeter they could make an accurate measurement of the average power output for the pick-up coil.  They could change the value of the load resistor to experiment with different mechanical loads.   They could play with that setup to their heart's content and try any possible combination they could dream of and the power output will never exceed the power input.

MileHigh

Arron has never had much idea as to what is going on,he kind of bumbles his way through things. If you try and correct him on his forum,you just get what i got-booted out lol.
You know that saying MH-->if you cant dazzle them with brilliance,then baffle them with bullsh-t.
(I think Arron baffles him self most of the time)And Peter should know better.

These two are no better than those that try and sell so called OU devices that are fake-EG-a 3kw water powered generator->,they just do it in the form of a book.

I'd be more than happy to go head to head with Arron in a build off-->the most efficient pulse motor build off. But he wont take up my offer,as he knows that would be the end of his self aclaimed fame,and book of knowledge. Imagine that-Arron cooked by a truck driver/mechanicle fitter.

What do you say Arron?-you up for the challenge?,or are you just going to hide in your dark corner as you do when some one challenges you and your rubbish claim's. You can use what ever resorces,build equipment,and money you like,and i'll use a $50.00 budget,recycled material,and do it all on my own. Once the machines are built,we will send them of to some one who knows there way around accurate power measurement's-some one like poynt or TK.
None of my builds are or ever have been OU or self runner's,so you should win hands down with one of your self runner OU machines.So come on Arron,show everyone that you are speaking the truth-->come and kick my ass all over the OU forums-->in sted of just kicking me out of your forum.

TinMan

[TinselKoala]

Those clowns wouldn't know how to test an overunity machine if they had one sitting on a table in front of them, which they clearly don't.

You know, I am halfway tempted to get the MHOP down off the shelf again. It would be trivially easy to mount this pre-wound "generator coil" next to its rotor and show it lighting a bank of LEDs, while the usual spike-collector from the drive coil is pulsecharging its own run battery or an external battery. But really, I am tired of working for free, trying to help educate people a little so they don't waste their own time and money on useless fantasies, or in support of people like those Bedini demonstrators who have no scientific integrity at all.

I will bet that they have not even done non-powered rundown tests to determine exactly what the wheel losses actually are. Please, Err-on, correct me if I am wrong. What power does the wheel actually dissipate in bearing friction, windage, etc. when running at the RPM shown in the video? Do you even know how to determine this value? Here's a slightly easier question: how much energy is stored in the rotation of the wheel at a given RPM? Still too much for you? Ok, how about this: How much does the rotating wheel+magnets assembly actually _weigh_ and how is its mass distributed? Can you calculate the rotational moment of inertia ... or would you like me to do it for you?

[Hoppy]

I am not an engineer. I am a psychologist. 
But I am pretty sure these guyz are pushing this just for the money.
Nothing there really.
A nice collection of colorfull characters though. And degrees.

Yes, that's the conclusion a lot of people who have studied Bedini devices over past years have arrived at. I'm sure John is sincere in his beliefs that batteries conditioned on his energisers will show more out than in but he is also a business man needing to make a living. It can be fun building his wheel energiser but that's as far as it goes IMO. I did think it would make an interesting garden feature as a water wheel.

[MileHigh]

Well, I hope Aaron is reading this thread and sulking.  He really lacks character when he selectively deletes comments to advance hie Orwellian cause.

I mentioned before that I used the generic term "back-EMF spike" to mean a coil discharge and Aaron accused me of not understanding the difference between energizing a coil and a discharging coil.

Here is what he says on the YouTube clip that is viewable to all:

<<< Mountie, please stop spreading your ignorance.

Let's quote you right here: "Then you could measure exactly how much energy per back-EMF pulse goes into the charging battery."

Back EMF is always a lower voltage than the applied voltage when charging a coil. Back EMF (Lenz's Law) happens DURING the application of energy to charge a coil.

When the coil is switched off, we get an inductive spike of hundreds of volts, which is NOT "Back EMF". The Back EMF is ALREADY GONE when switching off the coil.

You don't know the difference between Back EMF and the inductive spike from a collapsing magnetic field.

Because you haven't graduated from Preschool to K, I'm not going to waste my time responding to anything else you bring up. You are a joke and a time waster - take your lies and ignorance elsewhere and stop contaminating the comment section with this kind of stupidity. Go away.>>>

My response is not visible any more, he deleted it:

<<< Don't make me laugh.  You are just playing a silly game of semantics.  Most people use the generic term "back-EMF spike" for a coil discharge and there are a few others.  So I used that term because most people still use that term.  So you are just playing a game trying to score some points on the playground.  Get real, your nose is growing.  You are fully aware I know what the difference is between charging and discharging a coil.  Just like you are fully aware that when it comes to electronics I can spin circles around you with my eyes closed.  You know it.  You will get a full response on OU.com.  >>>

So read it and weep Aaron.

[Paul-R]

When the coil is switched off, we get an inductive spike of hundreds of volts, which is NOT "Back EMF".

I am as confused as heck, MH. It would be really useful to have a clear definition of
1. inductive spike
2. back emf
3. CEMF (just for good measure).