The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[thngr]

There is no delayed Lenz effect only thing I see poor magnetic cores transforms magnetic energy in to heat while not short circuited.
in short circuited coil there is much resistance to chancing magnetic field so in ideal conditions(super conductor coil) there wont be any magnetic flux chance. Bare iron is their core material.(which couse so many edycurrents in them) Please end your quarrel about it.[/size]

[thngr]

Good luck with that.

[Jimboot]

In glancing through this thread I see the notorious term "delayed Lenz effect" being mentioned.  There is no delayed Lenz effect and let's take a quick look at some of the issues involved.

For starters, the term is about the Lenz drag that a rotor experiences when a rotor magnet passes a pick-up coil that is driving a load.  If the rotor speeds up the mistaken assumption is that somehow the drag has been somehow "delayed" such that the rotor experiences less overall Lenz drag and therefore it speeds up.  Presumably nearly the same power is going into the load.  There may be other definitions or interpretations because it is a pretty loosely defined term but let's just use that one for this discussion.

Let's start with some basics like the idea of somehow "cheating Lenz."   Everybody knows that if you hold opposing North-North bar magnets in your hands that there is repulsion.  I don't think anybody would argue that you can "cheat" for this example.  Common sense tells you that opposing magnets repel and there is nothing that is ever going to change that.  So what about the case when a rotor magnet passes by a pick-up coil driving a load resistor?  We all know that current will flow in the coil.  Therefore the pick-up coil itself becomes an electromagnet.   So a spinning rotor magnet with the North facing out will see a Noth pole from an electromagnet (the pick-up coil) as it approaches causing Lenz drag.   When the rotor magnet leaves it will see a South pole electromagnet causing Lenz drag.  There is no way that the rotor magnet will interact in some kind of different way with the pick-up coil which is simply acting as an electromagnet.

If you can't "cheat" the repulsion force between two opposing magnets, by the same token you can't cheat the repulsion force between a magnet and an electromagnet.  If you want to drive a load with your pick-up coil, by definition current has to flow into the load, and therefore by definition the pick-up coil will become an electromagnet that opposes the movement of the spinning rotor magnet.  Therefore, there is no point in searching for an assumed "workaround" or "cheat" or "attempt to delay" the Lenz drag that the rotor magnet will experience.

So what is really happening?   A typical example is where the pick-up coil is shorted out and the rotor spins at say 500 RPM.   Then you attach a load resistor to the pick-up coil and you observe the rotor speed increase to say 800 RPM.  Voila, there is your magic "delayed Lenz effect" - you went from a "no load" condition to a "load" condition and the rotor speeded up.

What's really happening is that you are failing to make proper measurements.  When the coil is shorted out, current circulates through the resistive wire of the coil and that is a load.   When you attach a load resistor to the coil, now the load has changed to the wire resistance plus the load resistor.

Now, in both cases above you can add a small current sensing resistor and measure the RMS voltage across the current sensing resistor.  Then you can calculate the power dissipation in the coil for both cases.

Here is the "surprise":   When you add the load resistor, LESS power is dissipated in the (coil + load resistor) as compared to the coil only.   That is the reason the rotor increases in RPM.

You can see how ironic the whole thing is.   Somebody says, "Wow, I add a load resistor and I increase my output power and the rotor speeds up!  You don't see this in the 'science books.'  This is outside of normal electronics."   

The experimenter thinks that his "rotor is speeding up under load" when in fact the TRUTH is that the rotor is speeding up because you are REDUCING the load on the rotor.  In other words, what is being observed is making perfect sense.  Nothing out of the ordinary is taking place.

Now, when you see people playing with pulse motors and spinning magnets on rotors driving pick-up coils, how often do you see someone attempting to measure the power dissipated in the pick-up coil itself?   The answer is almost never, and that is the root of the problem.  You cannot take anything for granted.  You have to make proper measurements.  In cases like this, all that you really need is a half-decent true-RMS multimeter and you can make the required measurements.

The term "delayed Lenz effect" is false, it doesn't even exist.  It's been around for a couple of years and it results in people leading themselves down a garden path.

MileHigh

I'm not seeing speed increases but I'm not detecting extra load atm. Lots more measurements to make tho. I think the lenz effect just isnt getting in the way of the rotor.

[Jimboot]

hey guys. I watched a lot of educational institutional vids last night on Lenz. I couldn't find anything though that showed the science behind what happens to lenz when you pass laminated steel past a mag and you have a pu coil the other side of the mag. My exp would suggest it's just not getting in the way of the rotor, so no extra load or slow down. I really need to understand now more about gen coils. I'm beginning to grasp that small wires will give me high volts low amps and bigger wire the opposite. i'm trying to work out the best coil for my rig and I'm very familiar with the lenz effect given the amount of PMs I've built, I'm not seeing it here though.

[T-1000]

In experiments with alternating magnets passing by coils the coil responses are different from stationary magnetic polarities passing coils. This is what Jim, me and some other people are experiencing when setting up the test cases in experiments. Some people might deny that and flood another 1000 forum pages stating opposite without making experiment but that is not going to change behavior of coils in that scenario.
My concept which is laid out in my posts here have grounds on experiments and it is not a just  theory anymore...

Cheers!