3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed

[ramset]

yes
and I hope you learn so you can teach Me

[tinman]

@ TK,MarkE

You are telling me thing's i already know.
What you are not doing is showing me that what can be done with water can also be done with air in regards to bouyancy.
Quote: We just don't have the magic materials (except for aerogels) that are strong enough to float in air unless they contain some lighter than air gas that can balance the internal and external pressures. If we had such a material that could be strong enough to hold outside air pressure against a vacuum inside, it certainly would float in air as long as it displaces more airmass than it weighs itself.

So as we are dealing with devices we can build, and do have the material's for,then the pratical mechanics between air and water are different.They only become the same once the materials become avaliable to put together a device that act's like a bouyant vessle dose in water. Your statements remain theoretical until such time as you can prove otherwise-->is this not what you demand of anyone that claims things are different to what you think they are. My claims are in the here and now. The facts i state remain until such time as you can show me a device that contains a vacume,but will rise in air when the device is expanded or increased in outer surface area. I can do this right now in water with the avaliable materials we have here on earth-can you do the same right now in air? If's and but's are something we cannot work with. Lets deal with builds we can actually build,and have the material for. I think a strawman argument would be more of one of a device made from materials that dont yet exist

Quote TK: you are lifting water, which requires work.
This i know,what you dont understand is that the work has already been done before the vessle hits the bottom.

Quote MarkE-It absolutely takes work in one direction or another to change the volume of a submerged object

Once again,this i know-please see reply 8- Quote: Work is only required to reduce surface area of the object at the begining of the cycle.

Guy's
I can build my device right now with materials at hand-can you do the same-->can you build a device with materials we have right now,so as it performs the same in air as mine will in water?.
Also,please read what i have said,as you are making statements that seem to imply that i disagree with things that i have already agreed with,or have posted before you actually made your statement.

@TK
I think you may remember this video. Now,why wouldnt this work?,and how would it be different if we used the same type of theory in water?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nKltbQ8PBQ

[tinman]

Hi Brad,

You can quote text as follows:
start the text to be quoted with this symbol and word:   [quote and now use this symbol ] right after the word quote like this quote] and then include the text to be quoted.
And at the end of the text include the following symbols and word:

[/quote and again use this closing symbol ]  right after the word quote without a space.  Of course, no need for using bold characters.

For the next text to be quoted, apply the same symbols and words,  i.e. embed the text to be quoted between the two symbols and words.
Hope this may be useful.

Gyula

Test

[tinman]

Hi Brad,

You can quote text as follows:

second test

start the text to be quoted with this symbol and word:

third test 
Gyula

Still screwing this up some how
Now my replies are in blue too lol.

[gyulasun]

Hi Folks,

I have made this explanation as attached, I cannot explain it simpler or better... 

Gyula