3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed

[tak22]

Thanks TK for staying on this thread. Here's the first two steps in a process and I think it's the transition that's the 'sticky spot'. Assuming the use of magically good low loss doors and valves, the energy to move the box from the boot into the leg (which raises the water level), is greater than the possible energy through the turbine?

[TinselKoala]

Well, now you have changed the problem again.

A couple of things should be clear from your diagram. First, you really do need "magic doors" for this version, which are not needed for Quinn's original device or my analysis of it. You cannot push your box into the tall column through any real door without losing a _lot_ of water.

Second, it should be clear, given the magic doors,  that when you do push your box into the tall column you are raising the entire column of water by  one box-height. In other words you are pushing the box in against the full pressure head of the column of water, raising it up in the process. Of course you cannot recover this work from just draining a box of water from the top (again pushing through a magic door at the top) down thru the turbine. Or rather, assuming fully magic doors and a 100 percent efficient turbine and no drag in the plumbing, or other losses, etc. you will get back exactly as much work as you put in in the first place.

Magic doors and other impossibilities like 100 percent efficient turbines are not allowed in the real world. After all, _every_ non-working perpetual motion machine will work if you are allowed to use magic. For example I have a handful of permanent magnet motor/generators that will run forever, generating excess power, if only one could find some bearings with a negative coefficient of friction. The "magic door" problem, and buoyancy drives in general, are discussed quite well at Simanek's Museum.

https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/buoyant.htm
https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm#buoy4 (scroll up and down for much more)

[tak22]

Well it's a good thing I didn't have anything invested in this other than a willingness to toss out ideas and discuss them. 


tak

[yg_34]

What you think about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhUCesdIyOY

[ramset]

yg_ 34
from the comments on your Vid


"" For more visit:[/font][/size]http://isparktube.com/[/color][/font]
Finally An energy system that all can understand. for the common folk, what is happening here, is air is being used to float containers that are being held under water. This produce a rotation, which turns a generator that produce energy. It's is essentially a gravitational system. it also uses the buoyancy principle. The idea is to understand that the power output produces far exceeds the power input. Therefore once started the system runs on itself. This does not go against the second law of thermodynamic, which uses a localize close system. This also uses a close system, but a much bigger one, the gravitation of the earth. You can look at it this way, this system uses the gravity of the earth as fuel[/font][/size]  ""

If you have a contact or Phone number for this Fellow could you forward to


ChetKremens@Gmail.com
?
not sure this video was posted by the inventor ??

Thx
Chet