Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[tinman]

The problem is that you are not actually measureing the input energy.  So you are looking at two different machines, seeing that one reaches a higher energy maximum and drawing a conclusion that the energy difference is supplied by the PM.

If we have a set input energy that remains the same in both test,and yet we get a higher energy output from the second test simply by adding a PM,-if not from the PM,then where did the extra energy output come from?as the only change between the two test is the addition of the PM.

[TinselKoala]

That used to be the case but at the sample rates these days it's near impossible to hear the difference. now I'm confused though. Based on marks comment on newer scopes vs older ones should I go for an analogue one or purchase the rigor I'm looking at? I guess that is a question for TK

Well, it depends. I still think that it is better for the beginning scoposcopist to learn technique using an analog scope. Digital and analog scopes will each have their little "foibles" that should be understood before attempting to interpret measurements taken with them. While it is true that DSOs make obtaining some measurements much easier than analog scopes do, you still have to watch out for those "gotchas". For example, take a look at this video, and study the scopeshot below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc-Op1_Ka8g

What to purchase, if you have no experience with scopes at all? For 200 dollars you can get a used analog scope that originally cost thousands of dollars, and you can have a lot of fun learning how to use it well. Or you can spend 400 dollars and get a pretty powerful entry-level DSO that is so complicated that you may never actually use all its features... and you may never know whether it is lying to you or not.

[MarkE]

Just as i thought,you have no answer,and thus you hide behind babble.
I have shown you how a PM increases the work that can be done with a set amount of power.

Right there is a big fallacy:  You are comparing power and energy.  I can come up with all kinds of situations with solenoids and electric motors where just changing the winding will make a huge difference in the power dissipation for the same static applied force.  This is actually a very real engineering consideration in the design of a lot of electromechanical machinery.

No other material you can come up with will increase the work being done against that spring with a set amount of power as show in my simple experiment.

Like all other self acclaimed guru's,you fail at providing a simple answer,and the reason is-you have none.The electrical power remains the same,and yet the work done against the spring is increased simply by adding a PM into the system. You deny the outcome,and yet you have no argument against it.

If you wanted to show that the PM is adding energy to the system then you will have to evaluate energy.  The continuous input power to the electromagnet in short order masks the energy difference required to establish the respective magnetic fields:  One stronger with the magnet and one weaker with the ferrite keeper.

[tinman]

Neither this experiment nor the one TinMan describes demonstrate that PMs can do work.  Does a mirror do work when it reflects a light beam, as compared to a piece of glass painted flat black?  Does a ball bounce higher when dropped (from the same height) on concrete, or when dropped on soft sand?  You are merely  _redirecting_ some of the energy that you put into the electromagnet in the first place.

This dose not answer the question in regards to the test i put forth.

[TinselKoala]

If we have a set input energy that remains the same in both test,and yet we get a higher energy output from the second test simply by adding a PM,-if not from the PM,then where did the extra energy output come from?as the only change between the two test is the addition of the PM.

Drop a rubber ball onto concrete and measure the height of bounce. Now drop the same ball from the same height onto soft sand. The ball dropped on concrete clearly bounces higher. Where did the "extra energy output" come from?