Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[MileHigh]

Conrad, TK:

Analysis at 50 Hz (10 V peak to peak sine wave or AC from the Function Generator):

V1eff = 2.3 V , I1eff = V1eff / R1 = 2.3 / 100 = 23 mA , V2eff = 2.3 V, ϴ= 3°

Watt1 = V2eff * I1eff = 53 mW

Watt2 = V1eff * I1eff = 53 mW

Watt3 = (V2eff - V1eff) * I1eff * cos(ϴ) = ~ 0  mW  (coil H1 has no inductance at 50 Hz, 23 mA, needs more Ampere, output from H2 + H3 through R2 is ~ 0 mW, measurement not shown)


Analysis at 1000 Hz (10 V peak to peak sine wave or AC from the Function Generator):

V1eff = 1.5 V , I1eff = V1eff / R1 = 1.5 / 100 = 15 mA , V2eff = 3 V, ϴ= 53°

Watt1 = V2eff * I1eff = 45 mW

Watt2 = V1eff * I1eff = 22,5 mW

Watt3 = (V2eff - V1eff) * I1eff * cos(ϴ) = 1.5 * 15 * 0.6 = 13,5 mW (output from H2 + H3 through R2 is ~1.4 mW, measurement not shown)

My take on these measurements is one more time based on the fact that the the power going into the load is much less then the power burned in the resistive wires in the transformer, the hysteresis in the core, etc.

At higher frequencies the transformer primary is looking mostly like a reactance (much larger than at 50 Hz) and producing the phase shift.  The "load" is still so tiny that the 90 degree phase shift due to the primary reactance predominates over the "zero phase shift" of the load.  I am not going to crunch the numbers but I will assume for the sake of argument that the power burnt off in the resistance of the primary coil is also larger than the power transferred into the load.

There is a big clue indicating that the inductive reactance of the the primary H1 coil predominates.  The input power is going down as the frequency increases.  That would make sense if you look at the primary just as the wire resistance in series with the primary inductance and forget about the load for a second.

So, in summary, I think in principle that your measurements are good.  Don't be surprised if someone corrects me through.  The problem is that so little power is going into the load, that what you are mostly measuring are the impedance properties of the transformer itself.  My assumption is that if you did have more power going into the load, perhaps not too much more power in the relative scheme of things, then quite quickly the resistive impedance of the load would predominate and then the voltage and current going into H1 would be very close to zero degrees out of phase.

Like I said when commenting on Itsu's power measurements, forgetting all the mumbo-jumbo talk, this design acts to block power going into the load resistor.

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

Mags:

Might that be because high frequency sound waves from the tweeter are directional, and mid range and bass are not?

(Learned that in my acoustics physics class in college)

Bill

Well the sound shouldnt be always directional other than the front of the speaker box, out towards the open area where the listeners/crowd are. Like if there were a live band playing with no power, just signin and instruments. The audience should not experience lack of high freq because there shouldnt be any directional audio coming from the band. Most all the people in the audience should hear the band fairly equally, no matter where they are in the crowd, other than loudness due to distance.  With speakers, most sound much better if the listener is on axis with the driver. But in general, those ideals are for the purist. One listener. One room. one sweet spot to sit in.  But for casual listening or with crowds, horns disperse the sound nicely.

Mags

[Pirate88179]

Well the sound shouldnt be always directional other than the front of the speaker box, out towards the open area where the listeners/crowd are. Like if there were a live band playing with no power, just signin and instruments. The audience should not experience lack of high freq because there shouldnt be any directional audio coming from the band. Most all the people in the audience should hear the band fairly equally, no matter where they are in the crowd, other than loudness due to distance.  With speakers, most sound much better if the listener is on axis with the driver. But in general, those ideals are for the purist. One listener. One room. one sweet spot to sit in.  But for casual listening or with crowds, horns disperse the sound nicely.

Mags

I do not disagree.  I played drums in a touring rock and roll band for 3 years.  But, this is also why I hate "live' albums as the sound always sucks.  In a really crowded venue, folks could hear my symbols but not the base drum.  Our sound guy was pretty good, but, you can only do so much.  I wonder if all freqs. of sound travel at the speed of sound?  (has anyone checked?)  Do highs travel a little faster and that is why they are directional?

I have no idea.

Bill

[MileHigh]

But the probe references are connected together at the scope chassis, usually. This will cause a connection between the input and output coils that may complicate matters. I think. The only scopes I have ever used that had isolated probe references were the Fluke 123/199 ScopeMeter series. And of course, active differential voltage probes have both leads isolated but I don't think anyone here is using a diff probe.

I am not sure I follow you because I see scope grounds connected to the function generator ground.  The bucking coil secondary is fully isolated.  So how can you get a connection between the input and output coils?   Note that I suggested to leave the probes in place.  Then use a battery-powered hand-held digital multimeter to measure the RMS voltage across the load resistor.  I was not specific and did not state "battery-powered hand-held digital multimeter" so I apologize if that caused any confusion.

I have a question for you.  I confess I have always been foggy on ground loops.  Is the function generator ground connected to the "third prong" ground or is it connected to the AC neutral line?  Same question for the scope, "third prong" or AC neutral line?   If you look at the OUR thread, Verpies said this to Itsu:

The Owon is still grounded through the mains neutral wire.
If you want to have a truly ungrounded scope then you must use a 1:1 mains isolation transformer.

That kind of "shocked" me.  I thought everything was grounded via the third prong.   It also suggests a nightmare.   What if your house wiring is old and you don't have polarized wall sockets.  You use those "third prong bypass" thingies.  Then one piece of equipment could in theory be grounded to the AC neutral and another piece of equipment be grounded to the AC hot.  Even if you have modern wiring it still would be possible to encounter that situation.  You know how a few electric guitar players have been electrocuted...

My real question, going back to Conrad's setup.  The function generator ground and the scope grounds are tied to one point.  I am going to assume that's a "third prong" tie point.   So you have the scope with it's own power cable snaking a ground wire to the electrical socket ground.  And you have the function generator with it's own power cable snaking a ground to another electrical socket.  Doesn't that set up a ground loop right there?  Can't that generate hum?

I have a related question, like I said I am foggy on this.  Inside the scope and the function generator, is there a tie point that connects the AC neutral to the third-prong ground?  I am so bloody confused with this stuff.

MileHigh

[synchro1]

Here's a picture of a "Bucking Coil" tripole just like the glued magnets produce. Maybe there's some "Scaler Potential" emenating from them? One of the testers might try the "Xenon Bulb" test on the coils?