Open Systems

[Turbo]

Closed systems are essentially non existent its best to call them closed loops within open systems in this respect every atom is electrically connected to one another by means of electric charges as well as gravitational force(s) and interaction between the energy flowing in closed loops within open systems and the energy flowing in open systems only becomes apparent when there is enough potential or disequilibrium available to establish a noticeable conductive pathways between said systems in order to make use of natures re balancing flux or better said to invite the external energy in(on)to the closed loop within the open system it is not overunity nor is it free energy or anything mysterious when all the available energy and conversions are taken into account.

[ramset]

Turbo
Quote
Closed systems are essentially non existent


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very true , and an important perspective .


Chet

[LibreEnergia]

Turbo
Quote
Closed systems are essentially non existent


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very true , and an important perspective .


Chet

Closed systems 'exist'.  They are simply a convenient way of analysing an idealised process mathematically.

Sure, they don't exist in the 'real' world, as we can only approximate them. importantly however the results of the idealised analysis puts absolute limits on the efficiency of real world processes.

Carnot for instance tell us that for any conversion of heat to work that the absolute limit on the efficiency is proportional to the temperature difference between the hot and cold sink and you cannot invent a real world process that breaks that rule.

   

[profitis]

libre:'and you cannot invent a real world process that breaks that rule.'

Me: are you sure about this

[LibreEnergia]

libre:'and you cannot invent a real world process that breaks that rule.'

Me: are you sure about this

For systems comprised of gasses that are modelled by the ideal gas law... absolutely.
For systems comprising mainly components where quantum scale effects predominate, possibly not.

However it is futile to build a system where all of the components are larger than quantum sized and expect it to behave any differently than the long established thermodynamic laws.

For sure these laws have only a statistical certainty but the chances of them behaving differently than how we know they apply in the normal physical world is vanishingly small.

However, IF you were to propose a system however where the geometry meant that the ratio of electromagnetic to gravitational forces changed (such as inside a Casmir cavity perhaps) then possibly yes those laws may no longer apply.