Open Systems

[MarkE]

"Energy can not be created or destroyed." 

Do we always know where the energy goes in all possible cases?  What I mean is...I believe that the above law is still intact.  My question is, can we always know where energy is dissipated (as heat) or converted in any device?  Is there any "gray" area here?

I have no examples at this time, but if I think about it, I may be able to come up with some possible scenarios.

I am not taking sides here, just wanting to learn.

Bill

I am not aware of any such situations either.

[tinman]

Both quoted statements are correct.  Now feel free to try and generate a surplus or a deficit.

Are you saying that this system(the electrolisis unit) cannot or dose not have the capability to give rise to another form of energy output now that all energy within the system has been accounted for?

What if we were to change the enviroment in which this system opperates?
If we had a heat sink of sorts on the electrolisis unit to disipate the heat,would that change the outcome-->silly question i know,but needs to be asked none the less.

[MarkE]

Are you saying that this system(the electrolisis unit) cannot or dose not have the capability to give rise to another form of energy output now that all energy within the system has been accounted for?

I am saying that if one accounts for all of the energy/matter the total amount at the beginning and end of the process will be found to be the same.

What if we were to change the enviroment in which this system opperates?

What about it?  Either you do all the accounting or you don't.  If you do all the accounting correctly, then the energy/matter will balance.

If we had a heat sink of sorts on the electrolisis unit to disipate the heat,would that change the outcome-->silly question i know,but needs to be asked none the less.

Add a heatsink, add a heater.  It doesn't matter unless you fail to do the accounting correctly.

[tinman]

I am saying that if one accounts for all of the energy/matter the total amount at the beginning and end of the process will be found to be the same.What about it?  Either you do all the accounting or you don't.  If you do all the accounting correctly, then the energy/matter will balance.Add a heatsink, add a heater.  It doesn't matter unless you fail to do the accounting correctly.

OK-so we agree that we have accounted for all the energies within the electrolisis unit-correct?

You may find this a little !drag! MarkE,but piece by piece you are going to be the one that confirms this extra energy.
So in saying that,here is my next question.
Q-Dose it require energy to move a mass through a body of water?

[Pirate88179]

OK-so we agree that we have accounted for all the energies within the electrolisis unit-correct?

You may find this a little !drag! MarkE,but piece by piece you are going to be the one that confirms this extra energy.
So in saying that,here is my next question.
Q-Dose it require energy to move a mass through a body of water?

Not enough information.  Move a mass through water in what direction?  Up?  Down (gravity) Left, right?  How fast?  How far? (time)  I think I understand what you might be getting at here but, you probably need to re-phrase your question a little.

(Please notice I did not ask what the temperature was outside, or how large the body of water was, or, if it was salt water, or day, or night.  So, I am not trying to be a smart ass.)

Bill