Open Systems

[tinman]

We have talked about the different things going on.  We have yet to perform any kind of numerical accounting.  An accounting means that we will actual construct a model even if it is just a simple paper form or better a spreadsheet.  Then there is the matter of obtaining data to assign each item. 

Is it your belief that you are going to get a surplus of energy on paper without performing measurements?

This is why you are doing all the accounting for the energy conversions Mark-you are putting it on paper. We are useing your beloved laws of physics to account for all energy in,and all energy out/disipated. This is why i am asking you(and others) to make sure we have converted and accounted for all the energy the battery delivered.

[MarkE]

This is why you are doing all the accounting for the energy conversions Mark-you are putting it on paper. We are useing your beloved laws of physics to account for all energy in,and all energy out/disipated. This is why i am asking you(and others) to make sure we have converted and accounted for all the energy the battery delivered.

In order to do so we have to agree on all the inputs and outputs.  When you are ready to describe the entire test set-up, we can do that.

[TinselKoala]

"HHO" implies monoatomic gases. These gases (hydrogen and oxygen) do not exist in unbound monoatomic forms at normal temperatures and pressures! They exist as diatomic molecules, H₂ and O₂.  Careful measurements of volumes, and considering the combined Boyle-Charles-GayLussac law, will show the true nature of the evolved gases.

From one mole of water, 18 grams of H₂O, "HHO" implies 3 moles (~22.4 liters x 3) of evolved dry gases at STP. But if the gases are actually the diatomic species H₂ and O₂ we expect one mole of H₂ and one-half mole of O₂ from one mole of H₂O, that is (~22.4 liters x 1.5) of evolved dry gasses at STP.

Has anyone who claims "HHO" monoatomic gases actually done this molar volume measurement properly (that is, drying and cooling the evolved gases to make dry gas at STP for the volume measurement)?

[profitis]

This gas buoancy device will work.h2 gas is swallowed at cathode and spits out of anode.only 0.1v-0.2v power source is needed and height of column can be made arbritarily large.this will work because entropy actually increases at base and decreases at top making some margin for gain

[tinman]

In order to do so we have to agree on all the inputs and outputs.  When you are ready to describe the entire test set-up, we can do that.

There will be no more input to the electrolisis unit other than that of what the batteries supply.There will however be an additional output from an open system that is a result of the actions of the closed system-but dose not impinge on that closed system-the electrolisis system.
If you are happy that we have accounted for all the energy the battery supplied to the electrolisis unit in the end form of heat, then we will move on. If you are not satisfied that we have converted all the supplied energy into heat, then this must be resolved before we go any further. The reason being that it must be a proof of concept on paper, as it would be very expensive to build and test-but with the monies avaliable, it can be done quite easily