Open Systems

[allcanadian]

@Farmhand

A resistive heater is not a closed system. That is obvious because energy leaves the system, if it was closed no energy could enter or leave the system. Very simple.

I think you know exactly what I meant and squabbling over semantics is a losing proposition.




@profitis
Thermodynamics is just another way of saying I do not understand modern physics in my opinion. Fundamentally there is no such thing as "heat" as most people understand it. Heat is a measure of the kinetic energy of particles and it also relates to a narrow band of wavelengths within the EM spectrum. Thus Heat is fundamentally an electrodynamic phenomena as most all phenomena are. In my opinion when people quote thermodynamics they are basically saying--- hey look I'm still stuck in the 1900's way of thinking.


In the modern world scientists are converting this kinetic and EM energy directly into electrical energy with nano-conductors and other engineered materials. In fact many people here might accuse these scientists of making a magical perpetual motion machine as it has no moving parts and could be stuck inside a black box...imagine that.


In fact we may even go so far as to say these new engineered materials are equivalent to Maxwell's Demon as imagined by him a very long time ago.


AC

[allcanadian]

Moving forward... I understand almost everyone is completely preoccupied by entropy ie thermodynamics and in a sense we could call this energy source technology. That is we transform energy in a material into heat energy and in many cases apply this heat energy to an archaic and outdated system to produce electrical energy. We basically spew most of the energy into the environment never to return and we call this modern.


However whenever I mention an energy sink technology nobody has a clue what I'm talking about and give me this puzzled look as if they have just seen a unicorn. Energy sink technology?, What do you mean... Energy sink technology. In fact the thought had never even crossed there mind that all that energy radiating away from their source might actually go somewhere.


My first exposure to this concept was when I read Nikola Tesla's lecture "The problem of increasing human energy". http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1900-06-00.htm

DIAGRAM b. OBTAINING ENERGY FROM THE AMBIENT MEDIUM
But was it not possible to realize a similar condition without necessarily going to a height?  Conceive, for the sake of illustration, [a cylindrical] enclosure T, as illustrated in diagram b, such that energy could not be transferred across it except through a channel or path O, and that, by some means or other, in this enclosure a medium were maintained which would have little energy, and that on the outer side of the same there would be the ordinary ambient medium with much energy.  Under these assumptions the energy would flow through the path O, as indicated by the arrow, and might then be converted on its passage into some other form of energy.  The question was, Could such a condition be attained?  Could we produce artificially such a "sink" for the energy of the ambient medium to flow in?  Suppose that an extremely low temperature could be maintained by some process in a given space; the surrounding medium would then be compelled to give off heat, which could be converted into mechanical or other form of energy, and utilized.  By realizing such a plan, we should be enabled to get at any point of the globe a continuous supply of energy, day and night.  More than this, reasoning in the abstract, it would seem possible to cause a quick circulation of the medium, and thus draw the energy at a very rapid rate.

As is often the case Tesla was light years ahead of his time and you guys can read whatever you like into this lecture. In essence this is what everyone is looking for... An Energy Sink.


AC

[Farmhand]

Haha, I'm not arguing, there is nothing to argue a resistive heater is not a closed system. True or False ?

You over complicate things to try to look clever. When a lizard basks in the sun it is an energy sink. Clearly Free energy for the
lizard. Solar panel is similar.

Thermo electric modules ect. can be energy sinks. You must be talking to very unimaginative people.

EDIT: OK I see Tesla's Quote. disregard the obsolete parts of the following paragraph. My bad.
Care to explain your revolutionary energy sink idea, I know you will never show anything so how about an explanation to explain
the working concept ? Do you mean a "sink" like a heat sink or a "sink" like water flowing down the drainage portion of a kitchen
sink, but an energy flow down the sink rather than the water analogy ?

I think a modern heat pump achieves that end, it sinks energy from the surrounding medium.

I'm not trying to be problematic, I'm always interested in interesting idea's.

There is nothing to win or lose.  Only trying to save some young fella from going to his teacher and claiming a resistive heater is a
closed system.

Show me a truly closed system on a bench, one where no energy can enter or leave the system. Take a picture of it.

..

[profitis]

Sure sure @allcanadian.there's just one problem: kelvin statement and entropy laws are still written in todays textbooks in the same old wording as they were 100yrs ago so I stay with such outdated conceptual visualization for the sake of the kids here who have been brainwashed by it since birth.few people are going to understand phonon and photon resonant up-conversion

[ramset]

yes Mark E does seem to have taken a break.....
hope all is well ?