Open Systems

[MarkE]

Yes it dose,regardless of what Mark may say. Moving the piston is doing nothing more than enlarging the tank the gas is stored in-->but the amount of gas never changes,thus the energy contained within that gas also never changes-->joules per ltr remains. So regardless of wether the gas go's from the large tank,or via the way of the cylinder first,the same heat energy will be produced by that amount of gas. Mark will give you no reason at all as to how the energy stored within that gas can change just by moving the piston-->because it dosnt change. !ltr of gas is 1ltr of gas regardless of where it must flow to get to the heater. This is why we are useing HHO gas insted of compressed air,as the energy in compressed air is the pressure,where as with HHO,the prssure is a byproduct only-->and it is this byproduct we are gaining our extra energy from.
Mark also states that producing the HHO under pressure requires more energy per mole of gas,and while this is correct,he forgets the fact that more heat energy is produced at the same time-->energy is conserved. So while gas production may go down per joule of energy,heat energy production go's up by the same amount.

Opperating the piston,and gaining energy from this movement comes at no extra cost to the energy input of the system.

Tinman, if the piston performs external work, then the PV product inside the appartus falls:  Energy and Elvis have left the system.  They aren't coming back.  Only you have done your accounting improperly. 

If the piston does not perform useful work then the PV product remains constant and the existence of the piston does nothing to change the system.  Either way, your premise fails.

[pomodoro]

If the compressed gas, say 1L at 120 psi, goes straight to the burner, there will be some cooling as it expands at the nozzle, then the heat from burning.  If it goes to the piston instead, assume the cylinder is 1L in volume and valve A is kept open for the whole stroke, then some work is done and we still have 120 psi if the tank is large. Tap B opens, A closes, and the piston pushes the whole 1L to the burner.  The heat from the burning will be the same, since 1L at 120 psi was in the cylinder. The pressure will be on average 60 psi, since the cylinder will discharge at 120 initially but nearly zero at the end, when the plunger starts pushing back. There is less cooling at the nozzle as the gas expands since the pressure will average 60 psi for the cycle. However, the gas in the cylinder will cool with expansion, so overall the cooling of the gas in both cases is the same.   The pressure in the big tank is lowered slightly by the same amount, but we assumes a very large tank to avoid extra calculations. So yes it seems that you get work out of the gas. No doubt about it.

However there was no need to electrolyse at 120 psi if only burning was required!! In other words, compressing a gas only to burn it later is a waste of energy. The piston system is a way to get some of the work put into compressing it back, since you don't get back it at the flame.

[tinman]

Tinman, if the piston performs external work, then the PV product inside the appartus falls:  Energy and Elvis have left the system.  They aren't coming back.  Only you have done your accounting improperly. 

If the piston does not perform useful work then the PV product remains constant and the existence of the piston does nothing to change the system.  Either way, your premise fails.

Once again incorrect.
The PV product dose not fall. P decreases-GV remains the same, and the CA/V increases.
Once again you are missleading people with incorrect information. A liter of water is a liter of water regardless of the size of the bucket it is in.

[profitis]

Pomodoro.who was taxed in the compression cycle: tinman exclusivey or tinman plus environment.

[tinman]

Pomodoro.who was taxed in the compression cycle: tinman exclusivey or tinman plus environment.

No idea what it is your trying to say profitis.
As we raise the pressure, less hho gas is produced per joule of energy supplied to the system, but as a result, more heat energy is produced to account for the energy supplied-energy is conserved. As heat is the output we want, the heat is not waste heat, and the energy to raise the pressure in the storage tank has been accounted for.

I have no idea as to how Mark seems to think that lowering the pressure within the storage medium by increasing the storage mediums capacity , lowers the stored energy within the hho gas-as the volume of gas remains the same, and total inch pounds x square inches remains the same.