Open Systems

[LibreEnergia]

There is no loss or gain in a closed system,the gain comes from the open half of the system,which in turn come from nature.

First, you use the term 'closed system' to describe what is actually referred to as an 'isolated system'.  i.e. a boundary over which neither matter NOR energy may pass. In actual fact isolated systems do not occur in nature but as engineers we sometimes pretend they do.

A closed system may pass energy , but not matter, and an 'open system' may pass both across a boundary.

These boundaries are completely arbitrary and are only chosen for the convenience of analysis. If you account for heat and/or work flows across them then it matters not where they are drawn.

[MarkE]

Please make sure that you read my last comment to Mr Einstein Mark,as i think you are thinking along the wrong lines here. You may need to go back to the start,and refresh on the fact that this device as a whole is a bouyancy/gravity device.

Well, based on the descriptions to date, the buoyancy angle is a new one on me.  Be careful that you haven't mixed so many different things together that you cannot separate the individual effects.

The ram is to simulate an expanding bouyant device,but in this first test,it will have a resistive force applied to it to show that an external force dose not change the end result of the ram being filled with gas from the vessel. If the vessel supplies the ram with the gas required to reach say 50psi inside that ram when fully extended,then making that ram do work will not result in a further reduction of energy within the gas.-->remember at the start the gas that was to be used was HHO.

Yes I recall that you said you were electrolyzing water to generate your gas.  If you change that, just say what it is you are doing.

Now,i need to know if you can convert a given volume of gas at a set pressure and temerature to joules of energy?.

If the gas is known, then yes that is readily done.  What will you be using for temperature and pressure measurements?

This will be needed when calculating total energy at the start of the test,and total energy at the end of the test.

[MarkE]

There is no loss or gain in a closed system,the gain comes from the open half of the system,which in turn come from nature. If we adopt your attitude LE,we will go no further than we already have. Man puts in X amount of energy to make a solar pannel,and nature returns this X amout of energy-->plus a whole lot more.The closed system in this case is the solar pannel/charge controller/battery/load. The open part of the system is the sun. Is the sun effected by any load placed on the solar pannels output? NO,and neither is the gases energy effected by an external resistance placed apon the ram-the open part of the system as a whole.

Well, actually:  The sun emits energy and barring any signficant reflections, that energy is gone.  When a volume of gas expands by driving a piston, the machine does work and loses the internal energy delivered as work to the outside world.  Then that energy is gone as well.  I know that you don't believe this, but if you stick with your experiments you should be able to learn it by the time you are done.

[MarkE]

Funny you should mention the sun.  I have no link to this but could probably find it...a "study" (done by global warming believer liberals) cautions against adopting solar panels world wide as this would "stress" the sun and cause it to burn out much earlier than it normally would.

What lunatics propose such an idea???

I kid you not.  Now I, of course, do not believe this for a minute but, someone, or some people got funded by the US Gov. and actually came up with this crap!!  This reminds me of the "study" that warned against the use of hydrogen powered cars as it would deplete the world's water supply.  My question would be...where is the water going?  Into space?

Anyway, just wanted to share this stuff.

Bill

Stupid ideas are not hard to find.

[Pirate88179]

What lunatics propose such an idea???Stupid ideas are not hard to find.

This was a few months ago on the top of the hour news on my local radio station. (CBS radio news)  I mean the one about the sun being drained.  The other report I do not recall where that came from as it was about a year ago or so.  I can look for it..it just pisses me off that we taxpayers foot the bill for these stupid studies done by God knows who.

Bill

http://www.provedplusprobable.com/solar-power-discovered-to-be-draining-the-sun/

Above is a link to the sun depletion study.