Open Systems

[MarkE]

This was a few months ago on the top of the hour news on my local radio station. (CBS radio news)  I mean the one about the sun being drained.  The other report I do not recall where that came from as it was about a year ago or so.  I can look for it..it just pisses me off that we taxpayers foot the bill for these stupid studies done by God knows who.

Bill

http://www.provedplusprobable.com/solar-power-discovered-to-be-draining-the-sun/

Above is a link to the sun depletion study.

It reads like parody to me.

[Low-Q]

Funny you should mention the sun.  I have no link to this but could probably find it...a "study" (done by global warming believer liberals) cautions against adopting solar panels world wide as this would "stress" the sun and cause it to burn out much earlier than it normally would.

I kid you not.  Now I, of course, do not believe this for a minute but, someone, or some people got funded by the US Gov. and actually came up with this crap!!  This reminds me of the "study" that warned against the use of hydrogen powered cars as it would deplete the world's water supply.  My question would be...where is the water going?  Into space?

Anyway, just wanted to share this stuff.

Bill

You can write them a letter telling them that this is not true. The sun radiates energy that is lost anyways (Lost from the suns perspective). If someone harvest some of this energy and convert it into work, it will definitely not have any influence on the sun.
IF the sun was influenced by this, think of how much energy the sun radiates. Here on earth that is approx 1kW pr. square meter. Multiply that with how many square meters the sphere with a diameter equal to 2 x radius between the earth and the sun has. How many watt do you get, and how many watt do you "drain" from the sun? The "drain" is in any case negligible.
The sun radiates approx 2 x10²⁷ Joule pr. second. If we "drain" 1GJ pr. second from this energy for the rest of the suns lifetime, the sun would not last for 5 billion more years, but 79 milliseconds sooner.
If the half the surface of the earth (Well, actually the area of the earth cross section) is used to harvest all 1kW pr square meters, the lifetime of the sun would be reduced by 112 days...

If you drain water out of a bottle, and somewhere below the bottle put a turbine or some impellers, it will not influence how fast the bottle is drained.

[tinman]

You can write them a letter telling them that this is not true. The sun radiates energy that is lost anyways (Lost from the suns perspective). If someone harvest some of this energy and convert it into work, it will definitely not have any influence on the sun.
IF the sun was influenced by this, think of how much energy the sun radiates. Here on earth that is approx 1kW pr. square meter. Multiply that with how many square meters the sphere with a diameter equal to 2 x radius between the earth and the sun has. How many watt do you get, and how many watt do you "drain" from the sun? The "drain" is in any case negligible.
The sun radiates approx 2 x10²⁷ Joule pr. second. If we "drain" 1GJ pr. second from this energy for the rest of the suns lifetime, the sun would not last for 5 billion more years, but 79 milliseconds sooner.
If the half the surface of the earth (Well, actually the area of the earth cross section) is used to harvest all 1kW pr square meters, the lifetime of the sun would be reduced by 112 days...

If you drain water out of a bottle, and somewhere below the bottle put a turbine or some impellers, it will not influence how fast the bottle is drained.

Now we are starting to see what open systems are.
We can replicate the sun experiment at home. If we take say a 5 watt 12 volt incandescent bulb,that 5 watts of power is transformed into light and heat energy. If we now place solar pannels around that light bulb,and place a load on the output from those solar pannels,the bulb will still emit the same amount of light and heat for that 5 watts of power-->the solar pannels place no load on the closed system(the light bulb and battery). So all of that 5 watts is accounted for by way of heat and light emissions from the bulb,and we can now draw power from the solar pannels without cost or reflection on the closed system.

[MarkE]

Now we are starting to see what open systems are.
We can replicate the sun experiment at home. If we take say a 5 watt 12 volt incandescent bulb,that 5 watts of power is transformed into light and heat energy. If we now place solar pannels around that light bulb,and place a load on the output from those solar pannels,the bulb will still emit the same amount of light and heat for that 5 watts of power-->the solar pannels place no load on the closed system(the light bulb and battery). So all of that 5 watts is accounted for by way of heat and light emissions from the bulb,and we can now draw power from the solar pannels without cost or reflection on the closed system.

LE's definition of open and closed is correct.  Anyway the silly item PB found that I am quite certain is a parody brings up a point that we see in free energy claims a lot:  The more decoupled a source and a load appear to be, the less efficient energy transfer tends to be.  The incident radiation from the sun on the earth happens pretty much no matter what.  Even if the earth were wrapped in a perfect mirror, the return radiation to the sun would be insignificant versus the total solar flux.

In the machine that you have described so far, if the piston drives an external load, then the piston is tightly coupled to the gas volume in the cylinder.

[tinman]

This was a few months ago on the top of the hour news on my local radio station. (CBS radio news)  I mean the one about the sun being drained.  The other report I do not recall where that came from as it was about a year ago or so.  I can look for it..it just pisses me off that we taxpayers foot the bill for these stupid studies done by God knows who.

Bill

http://www.provedplusprobable.com/solar-power-discovered-to-be-draining-the-sun/

Above is a link to the sun depletion study.

I remember this one,and another study by so called scientist that said current groth rate of solar pannel use would see the sun go out in 400 years lol.
It is interesting that both of the scientific studies were funded by petrochemical companies lol.
They have even given it a fancy name-->forced photovoltaic drainage."

!!Apparently!! If every home in the world had solar panels on their roofs, global temperatures would drop by as much as thirty degrees over twenty years, and the sun could die out within three hundred to four hundred years." LOL
http://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/em4318/

Rest easy guy's,here is the whole story.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/may/29/chain-email/claim-solar-panels-drain-suns-energy-are-satire-no/