Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.

[conradelektro]

I followed the Rosch-Gaia-boyancy-machine-story since last autom on the German speaking internet forums. Although I live in Austria I never travelled to any demonstration or presentation of this machine.

So, can I report a verdict? Unfortunately not, because Rosch and Gaia have managed to withhold any useful information from the public.

What can I report? It feels and sounds very suspect, I personally would not give a single Euro to people who behave like Rosch and Gaia. But I have no definitive proof that it is a scam.

And like me, nobody can give you a good answer right now, because Rosch and Gaia withhold all data and all design principles and refuse to let independent observers near the machine.

I want to finish with a personal observation based on my knowledge (from 45 years of experience) how business is conducted in Austria and Germany:

- The people representing Rosch and Gaia and the people speaking in favour of Rosch and Gaia do everything they can (mostly unintentionally) to make you run away in frustration and anger about the way they do business and the way they present technical facts.

- All people who speak out against this machine seem to put forward good technical arguments that it just can not work. But all have the problem, that practically no tangible facts are known.

- Rosch and Gaia seem to be able to find enough people who are willing to spend up to 15.000.-- on a dream and unfounded promises. (I think it shows that quite a lot of people are well off in Austria and Germany and other countries in Europe.)

It will take some time (may be years) to find good proof (whether it works or not) because Rosch and Gaia seem to understand, that withholding all information is the key to perpetuate a mystery.

So, we will discuss this thing for years, because we will not get useful information. And the people who spend money on this strange promise seem to be able to loose the money without really feeling it, and therefore will not make a fuss. The few who cry out could just get their money back.

The big machines (100 KW or even 1 MW) which are promised by Rosch could reel in investors who are willing to part from quite huge sums of money (up to 1 Million) just for a promise. But this remains to be seen. Because of the financial crisis, there are quite a lot of people who have millions and do not know where to invest it. Who wants to give it to banks? The real estate market is totally over heated and practically all enterprises show weaknesses. Therefore there is money for strange investments. We live in strange times where people do strange things.

Greetings, Conrad 

[MarkE]

There will always be a big supply of people with more cash than sense who can be persuaded by a dog and pony show or even just a story to let loose with some of that cash.  The list of people who have pried some of that cash loose goes on and on.  To me the interesting part is how Rosch and Gaia plan to exit without first being prosecuted for fraud.

[conradelektro]

To me the interesting part is how Rosch and Gaia plan to exit without first being prosecuted for fraud.

This speculation was put forward quite often in then last months and some Rosch-Gaia-supporters even try to construct some proof (that Rosch and Gaia are speaking the truth) from that argument.

I have researched the legal angle and I base my legal opinion on this contract which Gaia uses when signing up willing buyers:

http://gaia-energy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Anmeldungsformular-GAIA-Workshop-Energieerzeugung-mit-Luft-und-Wasser.pdf

The contract is in German, but even a non German speaker can see, that there is no number in it which promises any output of the machine. The contract does not say that the machine will put out 5 KW. In fact no output at all is specified.

My argument: if one signs this contract one can not sue Gaia or Rosch, because nothing is promised.

The contract states, that one has the right to take part in a workshop (what ever that is) and that one will receive a kit (no finished product, just a heap of parts which one has to put together one self).

The contract says at the end, that "Rosch guarantees the functioning of the machine" but it says nowhere what "functioning" means. No definition of output or input, no definition what the machine does.

One could try to sue Gaia for using a trick-contract, but this is weak. If one accepts this contract one has bought participation in a workshop and a kit which is not specified.

I see no great legal problems for Gaia. Strange "self-exploration workshops" are sold for more money. So, even the price is not that extraordinary for a "strange workshop".

Gaia and Rosch are careful and do not legally expose themselves very much. There are just stupid people who buy something which is very badly specified. Making somebody sign such an ill defined contract ist not proper business practice, but one hardly goes to jail for that. There is no law that really protects stupid people from signing strange contracts.

And one should realise, that the people signing this contract are not poor, they are at least well off or even a bit rich.

One thing I observed: the people showing up at Rosch and Gaia events have almost no technical expertness. I see in them "strange people" with a leaning towards esoterica.

Greetings, Conrad

[MarkE]

This speculation was put forward quite often in then last months and some Rosch-Gaia-supporters even try to construct some proof (that Rosch and Gaia are speaking the truth) from that argument.

I have researched the legal angle and I base my legal opinion on this contract which Gaia uses when signing up willing buyers:

http://gaia-energy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Anmeldungsformular-GAIA-Workshop-Energieerzeugung-mit-Luft-und-Wasser.pdf

The contract is in German, but even a non German speaker can see, that there is no number in it which promises any output of the machine. The contract does not say that the machine will put out 5 KW. In fact no output at all is specified.

My argument: if one signs this contract one can not sue Gaia or Rosch, because nothing is promised.

The contract states, that one has the right to take part in a workshop (what ever that is) and that one will receive a kit (no finished product, just a heap of parts which one has to put together one self).

The contract says at the end, that "Rosch guarantees the functioning of the machine" but it says nowhere what "functioning" means. No definition of output or input, no definition what the machine does.

One could try to sue Gaia for using a trick-contract, but this is weak. If one accepts this contract one has bought participation in a workshop and a kit which is not specified.

I see no great legal problems for Gaia. Strange "self-exploration workshops" are sold for more money. So, even the price is not that extraordinary for a "strange workshop".

Gaia and Rosch are careful and do not legally expose themselves very much. There are just stupid people who buy something which is very badly specified. Making somebody sign such an ill defined contract ist not proper business practice, but one hardly goes to jail for that. There is no law that really protects stupid people from signing strange contracts.

And one should realise, that the people signing this contract are not poor, they are at least well off or even a bit rich.

One thing I observed: the people showing up at Rosch and Gaia events have almost no technical expertness. I see in them "strange people" with a leaning towards esoterica.

Greetings, Conrad

From the looks of that they might be able to pull off thei scam without consequences.

[conradelektro]

From the looks of that they might be able to pull off the scam without consequences.

They will not have a good reputation, but they could go on for years constantly getting some money and never much legal problems.

A model for that is John Bedini. You could even see books based on his "invention" recently advertised in this forum. I am sure they sold a lot (and for a good price). How long is Bedini doing his Spiel? 40 years?

Further models are all financially successful faith healers and fortune tellers.

I add most of the "how to live better" books and most beauty articles sold in the millions.

Well, many religions prosper financially. What do they provide?

People love a good mystery and so do I (and I dare to say you as well).

If something is a very good show, I might myself spend some money on it. I am human, even if some might dispute that. But it has to be a much better show than offered by Rosch and Gaia. I once met a fortune teller and faith healer, who had a tremendous show going on. It was well worth the 100.--, better than any performance I ever paid for in a theatre or movie hall. Some people are really good and charismatic. Let's face it, the show must go on. One can enjoy a show without really believing it. There is entertainment value in many things.

Greetings, Conrad