A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]

[TinselKoala]

It may come as a big surprise , but plenty of folks find your position and assumption here highly insulting.

What they, and you, SHOULD find "highly insulting" is when someone blatantly lies to you about what he has, what he has done, and etc. without providing one single trace of actual proof or evidence.

To come into a room full of grown men building something they feel has potential ,based on criteria which has not even been fully
clarified and then stating many of the things you said here ,will not only get you insulted in most places ,It will get
you into a dust up.

Politics ,religion ... and Magnets

always good for a brawl ....

But you already know that.....

When someone is presented to me as a "sincere gentleman" and it's clearly obvious to me that he's lying and will _never_ produce any evidence for his claims... I feel like brawling myself.

Suppose someone came up to you in a bar and insisted that he could jump off a ten-story building, flap his arms, quack like a duck and fly away, faster than a 777. And kept on insisting that he could do this, and even told other people he could teach them how to do it.... but he never demonstrated it, nor gave you any proof he could do it. But he carried on for weeks making the same claims and promises, and his little group of people started doing arm exercises, and running around in circles practicing quacking like ducks. And then finally he just disappeared, leaving his followers running around in circles quacking.

Why, Chet, I do believe that even YOU might not believe him, and if someone called him a "sincere gentleman" and wanted to kick you out of the bar for disbelieving him and his quacking followers ... you might come to blows yourself.

And that is pretty much the situation here. MadMack made claims to you and to everyone else, but he cannot produce what he claimed, because it is a physical impossibility. Now, if he had produced some credible evidence that he could somehow overcome hundreds of years of real physical science and the solid Conservation Laws ... then I'd be the first one to apologize, eat my hat, and never darken your door again (while running for the hills since the whole world would soon begin to fall apart because of this discovery.) But it ain't gonna happen, you know it and I know it.

So please stop "left-handed" threatening me, and face up to the fact that you, along with a bunch of other people, have been duped by your "sincere gentleman".

when you come in talking trash about someone ....you either have knowledge that you are privy to about that person
or you are taking huge privilege's with Due process ....

Or... you know utter BS when you see it, because you know a little physics and have some experience in these matters, and you aren't afraid to say PROVE ME WRONG... because you know you aren't wrong.


Now why would people find ME insulting, when I am telling you the truth and simply challenging a claimant for evidence to the contrary, they but don't find Mack insulting when he's making his claims, telling you contradictory stuff, and not providing any evidence that he might be telling the truth? There is something seriously wrong here, and it's not _my_ attitude.

[TinselKoala]

I have nothing against research and speculation, Chet. But that is not what has happened here. Someone clearly claimed to have created a self-running magnet motor, and claimed to be able to show others how to make one. This is not "research" or "speculation", it is a clear claim that something has already been accomplished. But let me remind you that absolutely NO evidence was provided that this claim is or was true. And I know that it cannot be true, and not only that, but that there are several "tells" in the story that indicate that it isn't true, regardless of the actual physics involved.

So I'm not criticizing researchers, experimenters, even "crazy" theorists here. I'm criticizing a claimant who has made an outrageous claim without providing support, and who has gotten people to do all kinds of misguided work because of it. This is "anti-research", in fact. I've even given valid suggestions for testing some of the "subclaims" experimentally, which suggestions have largely been ignored.  People still are pushing things around with their fingers, going Ohh ahhh when they see things that are actually perfectly ordinary and which have no hope of adding a single microJoule of energy to their systems beyond what they put in with their fingers.  If they want to behave in such a silly manner instead of proceeding scientifically, I'll laugh at them publicly. If they want to proceed scientifically I've got suggestions and help -- after all, I've built more than a few "magnet motors" myself and I've demonstrated how to test them using valid techniques and proper application of the Scientific Method.

I've got a pretty thick skin. Go ahead and berate me, insult me, threaten me with brawls, et cetera. None of that addresses the real problem that is making you, or other people, mad at me.  You are frustrated because deep down inside, you know I'm right and you don't want me to be.

[kiwi3]

TK

No one can prove you wrong because there is nothing to prove wrong. All you have done is give your OPINION of Mack and his revelation.
No different to those who have a different opinion.
Unless Mack comes back nothing can be proven.

[kiwi3]

[And that is pretty much the situation here. MadMack made claims to you and to everyone else, but he cannot produce what he claimed, because it is a physical impossibility. Now, if he had produced some credible evidence that he could somehow overcome hundreds of years of real physical science and the solid Conservation Laws ... then I'd be the first one to apologize, eat my hat, and never darken your door again (while running for the hills since the whole world would soon begin to fall apart because of this discovery.) But it ain't gonna happen, you know it and I know it. ][/quote]

TK
Can you prove this to be a physical impossibility.Please tell me where I can find the research papers/ experiments etc that conclusively prove this to be.

[TinselKoala]

[And that is pretty much the situation here. MadMack made claims to you and to everyone else, but he cannot produce what he claimed, because it is a physical impossibility. Now, if he had produced some credible evidence that he could somehow overcome hundreds of years of real physical science and the solid Conservation Laws ... then I'd be the first one to apologize, eat my hat, and never darken your door again (while running for the hills since the whole world would soon begin to fall apart because of this discovery.) But it ain't gonna happen, you know it and I know it. ]

TK
Can you prove this to be a physical impossibility.Please tell me where I can find the research papers/ experiments etc that conclusively prove this to be.

Do you also want me to cite references for my assertion that you cannot strip naked, jump off a ten story building, quack like a duck and flap your arms and fly away faster than a 777? Do you think that somehow, someday, some wild experimenter will disprove my assertion that this is a physical impossibility?
OK, I think you will probably agree with me that this is a physical impossibility, because you have lots of experience with gravity and how heavy things behave under its influence, and you know you don't have the power-to-weight ratio or the wing loading of a bird, much less a jetpowered one. So now, as the old joke goes, it's just a matter of negotiation. Where do you draw the line between "physically impossible" and "maybe possible"?

Look them up yourself. Here are some topic headings to get you started:

Laws of Thermodynamics
Conservation of Energy
Conservation of Momentum
Conservative fields of force

A self-running permanent magnet motor would violate many solidly-proven principles (call them Laws if you like) of physics. Hundreds of years of experimentation and many many thousands of research findings support these principles.

ETA: But after all, you have it backwards. It only takes one credible demonstration to prove me (and all those conservation laws) wrong. If someone can fly off the building, naked and flapping his arms, fine, let's see it happen. If someone claims to have built a permanent magnet motor that runs itself (with no machine tooling, in several variations, and simply enough to be described in words over the internet in spite of a signed NDA, yet) fine. Let him PROVE IT. Or confess that he cannot.