A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]

[sm0ky2]

Solenoid motor?
Not sure what ypu watched MH, but my setup uses a DC PM motor for the mechanical rotation. The only thing I change is the counter weight for 1fixed permanent magney, and 1 permanent magnet on the controll are. We then spin the DUT up again to find that with the PMs installed, the DC motor now requires less current at the set voltage, meaning that the motor is now spinning faster for less power input. The only change we made was adding 2PMs to the system.

adding a secondary magnetic field to or near a PM motor, effectively alters the magnetic field within the motor.
generally the drop in current-draw is associated with a decrease in available torque per rotation.
the motor is spinning less powerfully, therefore consumes less current, at the same voltage level

This I discovered after careful analysis of a motor/flywheel combination, then attaching a magnet and repeating.

[tinman]

adding a secondary magnetic field to or near a PM motor, effectively alters the magnetic field within the motor.

The two small magnets used in the DUT are no where near enough to the DC motor to effect it at all.

generally the drop in current-draw is associated with a decrease in available torque per rotation.
the motor is spinning less powerfully, therefore consumes less current, at the same voltage level

This makes no sense at all. If the motor (DC motor) is supplied with a fixed voltage,the only way to increase or decrease the current draw from that motor is to increase or decrease the load on that motor. How did you come up with-the motor becomes less powerful,and thus draws less current?-when it has a fixed available voltage.

This I discovered after careful analysis of a motor/flywheel combination, then attaching a magnet and repeating.

This tells me you screw'd up the !already placed in the correct position! magnetic fields of the motor.

[tinman]

Brad:

Okay, I thought of an easy way to get my point across.   We will just use imaginary power consumption figures:

Setup without magnets:  4 watts power consumption
Setup with magnets:  2 watts power consumption

So, the question is did the magnets do useful work?

You are saying the magnets did do useful work, implying that they are a source of power.  I am saying that is not the case.

Here is the crux of the matter?   What is the actual output of the device?  Let's say that the mechanical power required to overcome the bearing and air friction to make the drum spin is the actual output and anything that is not the actual output is simply electrical power turned into waste heat power.

Here is the key point that you are not considering:  The actual mechanical power required for overcoming the bearing and air friction is only 0.2 watts.  In many setups it's very difficult or sometimes nearly impossible to make this measurement.

<<<< Sidebar:  The best measurement technique for an amateur experimenter to estimate this actual mechanical power needed for keeping a rotor spinning at a given RPM is the spin-down technique.  I am only aware of TK doing this measurement.  If you want to up your game, and this applies to all people that make some kind of spinning rotor device, then you should figure out how to make this measurement.  Even if it is only +/-20% accurate, that is a hell of a lot better than no estimate at all. >>>>

Now, with that knowledge, let's look at the numbers again:

Setup without magnets:  4 watts electrical power consumption
Actual mechanical power output:  0.2 watts
Efficiency: 5%

Setup with magnets:  2 watts power consumption
Actual mechanical power output:  0.2 watts
Efficiency: 10%

Do you see, adding the magnets only improved the efficiency of the setup so that it went from 5% to 10%.  The magnets did ZERO WORK, the only thing they did was change the efficiency of the setup and nothing else.


Here is what you would have to see for "Proof that Magnets CAN do useful work:"

Setup with magnets:  0.18 watts power consumption
Actual mechanical power output:  0.2 watts
Efficiency: 111%

Do you see what's happening with the numbers?  We are imagining that you have a setup with a motor that is 100% efficient overall to start with, and then you add magnets and the magnets themselves "CAN do useful work" and they CONTRIBUTE 0.02 watts of mechanical power to the system.

The problem is that when you do an experiment where you add magnets and see better numbers that NEVER happens.   What you actually see is something like this:

Setup without magnets:  4 watts electrical power consumption
(Actual mechanical power output:  0.2 watts - YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE THIS AND YOU CAN'T REALLY MEASURE THIS)
Efficiency: 5%

Setup with magnets:  2 watts power consumption
(Actual mechanical power output:  0.2 watts - YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE THIS AND YOU CAN'T REALLY MEASURE THIS)
Efficiency: 10%

When you add magnets to a setup and see better numbers all that you are really doing is making the setup more efficient and reducing the waste heat production.  You are NEVER showing "Proof that Magnets CAN do useful work."

Please think seriously about this example.  It does not matter that the numbers are hypothetical, it's the concept that you need to understand.

Well we could take a walk down the garden path i guess,or we could look at it for what it really is-that being--> When a set voltage is supplied to a brushed DC motor with a load on that motor,the only !!only!! way to decrease the current input (without changing the configuration of that motor),is by reducing the load on that motor. As the load on the motor dose not change throughout the test(the load being the rest of the DUT),then a second energy source must be provided to that load,so as to lift some of that load from the DC motor driving that load. The only thing we did was add the two PM's to the DUT,and i even went as far as fitting a counter weight that was the same weight as the PM that was to replace it. So we added the two PM's,and our current draw to the prime mover dropped by around half. As the supply voltage was a fixed amount,and the current dropped by half,this means we are now using half the power we were before the PM's were added.

The way i carried out the experiment was very accurate,and the same results were had time after time.

[ramset]

The Boss found an interesting Movie ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lks8N-_dQLs&feature=youtu.be

[DreamThinkBuild]

Hi All,

Here is an interesting magnetic spring.

US6232689 - Energy extracting mechanism having a magnetic spring

https://www.google.com/patents/US6232689