Tinman's coil shorting circuit

[Jimboot]

This is the sort of question I wish MarkE was still around for If we are shorting the output are we doing it to collect the collapse? If so why is that better than just taking the AC? Is it to change the polarity of the gen coils to aid rotation?

[penno64]

Maybe Brad might like to throw us a bone

[gyulasun]

...
If we are shorting the output are we doing it to collect the collapse?
...

Hi Jimboot,

Your question was answered by Brad in June if you go back to his posts. See his reply to woopy (Reply #3782 on: June 22, 2015, 12:48:14 PM, page 253) for instance  where he explains that a shorted coil in the right moment works as an electromagnet and he bucks its field with the rotor field, this is what gives some extra torque in the first place and the collection of the collapsed field takes place also and steered to the puffer capacitor.  So Brad shorts stator coil B in the first place to get an increase in rotor torque.

Further quotes from Brad from his other posts:

So here is where im at with V3 of the rotary transformer. Adding the bucking coil setup did indeed increase the overall output of the system-both mechanical and electrical. When  i say bucking coil, i mean a coil that acts as a magnet that can be switched on and off at the right time.  As it is a coil that is being shorted,and thus becomes an electromagnet that pushes against the rotors collapsing field just at the right time. This field also travels around the stator core,and boost the field within the secondary(generating)coil that provides the power for the globe.
So we do have a coil that is bucking both against the rotor's field and also the field of the generating coil.
-----------------------
I am using a bucking field effect between the rotor and coil B,not between coil B and coil A.

Coil B's current can flow into the cap along with coil A's current for a brief period of time,but coil A's current cannot flow into coil B at any point.
-----------------------
Question:    "Shorted to What exactly? Shorted back on itself? Because the Built in Diode will do this Half Cycle on the Fet anyway!"

No it wont,if the current flow in the coil is opposite to what it needs to be,due to a magnetic field that is opposite to that of the rotors field.
-----------------------
Question:  "Tinman says he shorts one of his coils at a particular time in his generator's cycle."

Yes,coil B is shorted for part of the rotor segments induced time.
-----------------------
Yes,there is a conduction path from coil B to the load,but no path from the load to coil B.
Coil B dose nothing until Coil A is producing a current flow,and thus S1 must be closed in order for coil B to provide current to follow that conduction path.
Without a load,coil A will lift the voltage in a cap to over 130 volts,but with coil B in operation the mosfet will blow at around 45-50 volts,as it is triggered by the reverse voltage of coil A.
-----------------------

@penno64    I put the above two lines in bold because the maximum gate - source voltage specified for the MOSFET is +/-20V, this is why I indicated the resistors in my schematic as simple means for protection.  Will you attempt some tests with your schematic?

Gyula

[tinman]

Hi Jimboot,

Your question was answered by Brad in June if you go back to his posts. See his reply to woopy (Reply #3782 on: June 22, 2015, 12:48:14 PM, page 253) for instance  where he explains that a shorted coil in the right moment works as an electromagnet and he bucks its field with the rotor field, this is what gives some extra torque in the first place and the collection of the collapsed field takes place also and steered to the puffer capacitor.  So Brad shorts stator coil B in the first place to get an increase in rotor torque.

Further quotes from Brad from his other posts:

So here is where im at with V3 of the rotary transformer. Adding the bucking coil setup did indeed increase the overall output of the system-both mechanical and electrical. When  i say bucking coil, i mean a coil that acts as a magnet that can be switched on and off at the right time.  As it is a coil that is being shorted,and thus becomes an electromagnet that pushes against the rotors collapsing field just at the right time. This field also travels around the stator core,and boost the field within the secondary(generating)coil that provides the power for the globe.
So we do have a coil that is bucking both against the rotor's field and also the field of the generating coil.
-----------------------
I am using a bucking field effect between the rotor and coil B,not between coil B and coil A.

Coil B's current can flow into the cap along with coil A's current for a brief period of time,but coil A's current cannot flow into coil B at any point.
-----------------------
Question:    "Shorted to What exactly? Shorted back on itself? Because the Built in Diode will do this Half Cycle on the Fet anyway!"

No it wont,if the current flow in the coil is opposite to what it needs to be,due to a magnetic field that is opposite to that of the rotors field.
-----------------------
Question:  "Tinman says he shorts one of his coils at a particular time in his generator's cycle."

Yes,coil B is shorted for part of the rotor segments induced time.
-----------------------
Yes,there is a conduction path from coil B to the load,but no path from the load to coil B.
Coil B dose nothing until Coil A is producing a current flow,and thus S1 must be closed in order for coil B to provide current to follow that conduction path.
Without a load,coil A will lift the voltage in a cap to over 130 volts,but with coil B in operation the mosfet will blow at around 45-50 volts,as it is triggered by the reverse voltage of coil A.
-----------------------

@penno64    I put the above two lines in bold because the maximum gate - source voltage specified for the MOSFET is +/-20V, this is why I indicated the resistors in my schematic as simple means for protection.  Will you attempt some tests with your schematic?

Gyula

What the hell.
After the turn of recent event's,everything is shot to hell anyway.
So here you go. Im sure you can work out the circuit needed from the schematic below.

[Jimboot]

Hi Jimboot,

Your question was answered by Brad in June if you go back to his posts. See his reply to woopy (Reply #3782 on: June 22, 2015, 12:48:14 PM, page 253) for instance  where he explains that a shorted coil in the right moment works as an electromagnet and he bucks its field with the rotor field, this is what gives some extra torque in the first place and the collection of the collapsed field takes place also and steered to the puffer capacitor.  So Brad shorts stator coil B in the first place to get an increase in rotor torque.

Further quotes from Brad from his other posts:

So here is where im at with V3 of the rotary transformer. Adding the bucking coil setup did indeed increase the overall output of the system-both mechanical and electrical. When  i say bucking coil, i mean a coil that acts as a magnet that can be switched on and off at the right time.  As it is a coil that is being shorted,and thus becomes an electromagnet that pushes against the rotors collapsing field just at the right time. This field also travels around the stator core,and boost the field within the secondary(generating)coil that provides the power for the globe.
So we do have a coil that is bucking both against the rotor's field and also the field of the generating coil.
-----------------------
I am using a bucking field effect between the rotor and coil B,not between coil B and coil A.

Coil B's current can flow into the cap along with coil A's current for a brief period of time,but coil A's current cannot flow into coil B at any point.
-----------------------
Question:    "Shorted to What exactly? Shorted back on itself? Because the Built in Diode will do this Half Cycle on the Fet anyway!"

No it wont,if the current flow in the coil is opposite to what it needs to be,due to a magnetic field that is opposite to that of the rotors field.
-----------------------
Question:  "Tinman says he shorts one of his coils at a particular time in his generator's cycle."

Yes,coil B is shorted for part of the rotor segments induced time.
-----------------------
Yes,there is a conduction path from coil B to the load,but no path from the load to coil B.
Coil B dose nothing until Coil A is producing a current flow,and thus S1 must be closed in order for coil B to provide current to follow that conduction path.
Without a load,coil A will lift the voltage in a cap to over 130 volts,but with coil B in operation the mosfet will blow at around 45-50 volts,as it is triggered by the reverse voltage of coil A.
-----------------------

@penno64    I put the above two lines in bold because the maximum gate - source voltage specified for the MOSFET is +/-20V, this is why I indicated the resistors in my schematic as simple means for protection.  Will you attempt some tests with your schematic?

Gyula

Thanks Gyula. I've been looking closely at the Alexander patent which does not short the output. Thanks for the references.