Homopolar Generator Revisit.

[tinman]

I know-not another homopolar generator thread
But this one is different.    This time we have two very talented people here on OU.com with different views and outcome's,and when this happens,you need to revisit the old to maybe discover the new.

So here is how it went down. I posted the diagram below,and asked these two questions.

So now the questions are
1-will the LED light in V2 where the LED is rotating with the magnets and disc, and the brushes are emitted.
2- If the LED dose light in V2, is there the lorentz force present,and if so,how and where dose it act upon the rotating mass?.

Poynt replied-->1. Yes. The fact that the led rotates with the magnet and disc should change nothing in terms of the induce emf.

2. If in fact Lorentz (as opposed to the E field) is responsible for the induced emf, it does so by driving an electron flow from the center of the disc to the outside of the disc.

And Vortex replied-->If V2 were possible it would usher in a new era of dragless generators and motors that would produce torque in free air with nothing to push against. Clearly this has never been demonstrated in these machines, although tried by many.

Vortex. If you could provide tetails or links to those that have done away with any sort of brush setup,and rotated the load with the disc and magnets,that would be great.

So who is right here?
If Poynt is right,then how would any drag(or back torque) be placed on the prime mover?.
If Vortex is right,then we gain nothing.

But the gamble is to big not to find out,as if Poynt is right,then as Vortex said-->->If V2 were possible it would usher in a new era of dragless generators and motors that would produce torque in free air with nothing to push against.

[seychelles]

gee weeze that would not take much effort to prove..i am for v2
is good to go.. http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif

[seychelles]

gee weeze that would not take much effort to prove..i am for v2
is good to go..

[Vortex1]

Quote from: tinman on Today at 06:37:48 AM

Poynt seems to believe the the Led will still conduct (light) even if it is rotating with the disc, and you believe that there needs to be a difference in motion/time for the LED to conduct Vortex?

If poynt is right, then what could cause a ! Back torque! (as some call it) on the prime mover.

Firstly let me say that I was up half the night in my hospital bed trying to decide whether to post my beliefs on the subject, as they went against my good friend poynt's views. When I decided I needed to post so I could get some sleep, I did so, but worded it in such a way that it tried to provide the consequences of V2 working rather than directly refuting Poynt's assertion that it would work.

I don't like being put in a position like a public trial of minds, I'm sure Poynt may feel the same. But we are here now, so be it.

I often defer to Poynt on matters of electrical engineering, he has more skill than I in that area. I am a simple self taught individual with not a lot of formal training, mostly just lots of years designing stuff for a company.


Yes, I am saying there need to be relative motion between the external circuit and the magnet rotation. Usually the external circuit is fixed and the magnets rotate.

As you know homopolar generators are also motors when driven with a current.

Now if you substitute a battery for the LED, version V1 will rotate, this is well known and in the oldest of textbooks regarding electricity and magnetism.

Now take the case of V2 and a battery circuit that rotates with the magnets...can you even imagine how torque and rotation can be produced in such a machine? It would be a reactionless motor drive that somehow sits in space and produces torque without counter torque, certainly a novel device worthy of a patent if not a Nobel Prize

I'd like to see this demonstrated, as it would be a new age of motor drives and generators. I say it won't work therefore it's inverse as a generator lighting the LED also won't work.
So my vote is that V2 will not work, will not light the led IMHO.

I'd like to know what is your opinion or what have your experiments found?

Years ago when I did the experiment, V2 yielded a null result. I also remember reading of others who tried this to no avail, but maybe their and my experiments were flawed.

I'm not in good enough physical condition to do research and provide links right now, it was all I could do to type this. Hope you understand.

Kind Regards
ION

[minnie]

Yes Tinman,
           you Aussies know your stuff as far as these things go
Just search "liquid mercury current collectors for high power
homopolar  motors and generators" by Matsekh.