Sharing ideas on how to make a more efficent motor using Flyback (MODERATED)

[SoManyWires]

very well done there!
seeing the block of metal want to lift that weight shows there is use to this.

ya now to find ways to recycle that into motion maybe a kind of hub motor or some storage.

you are our new leader.

[gotoluc]

The strength of that magnetic field seems so strong vs. what was going in. And for free...

It's probably a good sign that hardly anyone is paying attention to this thread.

If you think that was good wait till you see the next video

Yes, I agree, it's probably a good thing I'm now mostly ignored. Make things much easier.

Luc

[mihai.isteniuc]

Hi gotoluc, hi to all.
As sometimes happen in life, I was studding for the last couple of weeks the same area you are exploring now.


My testing rig was somehow different but still the same. I was focusing to see how much energy can be recovered as BEMF from an inductor pulsed with DC. The testing circuit was the one from the attachment noted 1. The trace on scope was the one noted 2 from same attachment. I was testing different kinds of inductors (air core, iron core, different number of turns, also different voltages, different pulse width and the list can continue). All test results where noted down into an excel data sheet. Important notice: all tests where done in mW ranges.


By far the best results where obtain from an air core inductor (not saying that this is the way ... air core). Conditions for testing that particular coil where the following: 12V supply voltage, pulse width 7-8% at around 1.5 kHz. With this setup I was able to recover an astonishing 90% of the energy invested in the coil, from back EMF. Better yet, with or without the recovering circuit, the current draw from the source was the same.


For the rest of the tests (different coils, different working conditions) a media of 50% recovery can be taken into account.


My understanding of this: you put into an inductor some energy. As a result the inductor exhibit some magnetic effect and also BEMF. Or with another words I put in 1 (one) unit of energy, get some magnetic effect and recover 0.9 units of energy from the same inductor as BEMF.


Let's go with the idea one step further. Let's consider two identical circuits as the one noted 1 in the attachment. For the 1st circuit we need to make it run, 1 unit of energy. One can recovers from that input 50%, or 0.5 units of energy. 2nd circuit is the same. Invest 1 recover 0.5. Now let's combine the 2 of them using the following logic: the recovered energy from 1st one is half of the required energy for the 2nd one to run. The other half comes from the power supply. The second recovery circuit became the half of the energy requirements for the 1st circuit to run and the other half comes from the second power supply. To better understand what I'm trying to say, see the section 3 from my attachment.


What's the gain? One can get twice the magnetic effect for the same input: 1 (one) unit of energy. Things get better and better if the recovery circuit can recover more. This was just an example, to better explain the way I see it. I hope I'm not wrong.


Some other approach to confirm (at least for me) that BEMF is capable of doing some useful work was the following: take one usual relay that has normal closed contacts. Connect the normal closed contacts in series with the coil of the relay. Connect this setup to a power supply (see 4 from attachement). What u will get is some sort of buzzer that is ringing with some frequency. Nothing new here. Now connect a diode to kill BEMF. The ringing frequency is lower now. This is BEMF expanding the duration of the magnetic field inside the coil. So YES, BEMF can do useful work for us.


I'll end my post with a question. Please see this if u have the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAtPHANEfQo It is a great animation that explain how a DC motor works, different types of DC motors and so on. At around 3:40 it is explained that BEMF is appearing on a DC motor also. But the explanation (and I saw it so many times over the years) that BEMF is a good thing in a DC motor cause otherwise the motor will overheat and burn is still shocking me every time I hear it. My question: Is this true? What if BEMF doesn't exist? Or because it is there (and we cannot remove it), then better yet, use it to do some useful work?


The way I see it is like this: u have a 6 volts lamp and a 12 volts battery. How can u make the lamp work without burning it?
Solution 1: use a series resistor connected with the lamp and the 12 volts battery;
Solution 2: use another 6 volts battery in series with the lamp and the 12 volts battery but connected with the opposite polarity (this is the case of BEMF don't you think?)
Solution 3: use a 12 volts lamp;
Solution 4: use a 6 volts battery;


Obviously one of the solution 3 or 4 are the logic (and most efficient) one to be used. Hell now, said the DC motor constructors. Solution 2 is the right way. Huh ... really?


mihai

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

here is a new test video with an accurate way of testing the magnetic flux amplification effect.

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dmKEOWOhQA

Luc

[SkyWatcher123]

Hi gotoluc, thank you for sharing.
For an easy to build useful test device, the old joule thief with high voltage secondary.
Place bifilar oscillator on one side of toroid, then place high voltage secondary on other side to receive the flyback pulses.
With either a low or high voltage pickup wind over that, depending on desired final output volts needed.
I realize that's not an ideal setup, since it's all on the same core, though it's a start.
It might give us a more efficient jenna led light circuit.
peace love light