Sharing ideas on how to make a more efficent motor using Flyback (MODERATED)

[MileHigh]

Too much on time can slow the rotor but may prove to have more torque for certain applications and too little on time would not hold the magnetic field long enough to pull or push the rotor magnet or core through.

I think that you are overlooking one fundamental thing.  If the ON time is long or short, you are still dealing with exactly the same amount of energy in the pulse.  So the question is how do you get the maximum amount of rotor bang for your fixed pulse energy buck?  In my previous posting I am suggesting a precise "Goldilocks" pulse timing that may get the most (push + pull) from the high-voltage coil if the pulse timing is exactly the right width and exactly the right position relative to the high-voltage coil in time but who knows, perhaps a shorter more powerful pulse (same energy) would be better.

There are more suggested questions and investigations leading out of Laurent's clip:

Why does the capacitor voltage get higher when he moves the main drive coil away from the rotor?

Laurent exclaims that the high-voltage coil gives a comparable push to the main low-voltage drive coil.  That suggests an important question:  How much electrical energy per pulse can you estimate goes into the main low-voltage drive coil vs. how much energy goes into the high-voltage drive coil?  How do you make measurements to compare the two?  This will give you hard numbers about the relative propulsive force of the high-voltage coil as compared to the low-voltage coil.  This is the very essence of your experiment.

Finally, there is an outstanding question that becomes even more important considering what was just mentioned above:  The high-voltage coil is quite a high resistance and therefore there are certainly a lot of resistive losses in the high-voltage coil.  How high are the resistive losses in the high-voltage coil and how do you measure them?  How does that compare to the pulse energy that you put into the high-voltage coil.

These are serious real-world questions about what you guys are doing.  If you choose to ignore them because you don't know what to do that's your choice.  What I think you guys should really do is really discuss these issues and get your juices flowing and try to figure these things out among yourselves.  It's the difference between doing an "experiment" that is little more than observing your motor in action vs. truly trying to understand the energy dynamics and trying to optimize your motor.  This is all up to you guys for yourselves.

[MoRo]

Thanks again Woopy! Very nice info!

And what about the back-spike coming off of the back-spike coil... Could a second reed switch be positioned so as to use it's back-spike ALSO on a third coil? (etc. etc. etc.)

Main coil - Reed switch - back-spike to (coil & Cap) - Reed switch - back-spike to (coil & Cap) - Reed switch - back-spike to (coil & Cap)

Just thinking of ideas here.

[gyulasun]

Hi Laurent,

Thanks for your new video with the interesting tests.

So my first estimation on increasing the 1 uF to make the pulse width wider was good but then this reduced the rotor RPM. 

With your second 1 uF added to the first 1 uF, the pulse width widened to 3 ms from the 2 ms but the peak amplitude went down to cca 62 Vpp from the cca 90 Vpp. This makes sense because the flyback pulse via the diode has a more or less given energy content from the collapsing field and the 2 uF capacitor with the same 1.8 H coil clearly represents a heavier load to the pulse than the 1 uF cap with the same 1.8 H does as MileHigh described this.
This means that if the goal is to get the highest pushing or pulling force at the ends of the C core it is the peak voltage across the HV coil which is to be maximized as you mentioned in the video because max peak voltages can give max peak currents which participate in the Amper-turns.
You mentioned you found the 0.3 uF cap value where the rotor RPM was the highest. This surely means that the peak voltage across the HV coil must have gone well above the earlier 90 Vpp value. The 0.3 uF gives resonance at as high as 216.5 Hz with the 1.8 H coil, this means the parallel LC circuit remains a capacitive load for the flyback pulse even at the increased rotor RPM too.

Greetings,
Gyula

[MoRo]

Another Idea,

If we are looking to make a magnified magnetic motive force from the back-spike, then maybe try running the back-spike through a step-up transformer first to increase the voltage spike to even higher voltages, then send that spiked-up energy to multiple High voltage electromagnet cores (stators).

As Newman said, he runs his motors off of voltage.

The higher voltage overrides the wire resistance to create a magnetic field through many many many turns of wire. Once the magnetic field exist though, evidently the choice of capacitor will determine the rate of magnetic field collapse. In the mean time, the magnetic field can be used to produce great torque.

I don't have the ability to test the above, but sure would like to see from Luc or Woopy if stepping up the voltage will in fact allow multiple High voltage electromagnet cores vs. one electromagnet core without a voltage step-up.

MagnaMoRo

[Magluvin]

Hi Luc

Thank's for your encouragement. Very intersting and inspiring video.
I have made a test where it is clear that the flybackspike is really powerfull, as it can spin the rotor quite esaily without the magnetic field of the main motor coil. Very encouraging
.
https://youtu.be/y4S3XvloAnM

Hi Guyla
Thank's for your input. I have made a second video (just above) which will answer a part of your question. Concerning the capacitance, the best rpm i can get with my device as it is is 0.3 uF. Now concerning the impedance of the assistant coil i will see what i can do.


Hi all
Thank's for kind word, and please feel free to replicate

Laurent

Hey Woopy.

Probably seen it before and may not be what you are doing with the caps, but it does show a single drive coil powered by a battery with a reed switch and the bemf is taken from the first coil and sent to other a cap bank to power a second drive coil. And then the bemf from the second drive coil to charge a very bad battery.
The second drive coil here also helps the rotor to pick up speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXxvAQ_mdUk

Mags