Inductive Kickback

[synchro1]

@Tinman,

I'm involved in serious testing. I connected a 70uF 25 volt capacitor in series between the positive output of my reed switch pulse coil and the beginning of my ferrite core serial bifilar coil and achieved a strong shudder in the elastic spring tensioned magnet piston held inside the attraction zone from the inductive kickback. I can't imagine how I would accomplish this with a second capacitor in the way.

The "shudder" I'm referring to is generating current inside the serial bifilar coil that is a direct result of the amplification of a resonant oscillation between the serial bifilar windings. Nothing like this is going on inside the single wire coil. It's dead, not alive and singing like Tesla's bifilar. When are you gonna get off the rag, huh Bub? 

[TinselKoala]

@Tinman,

Here's a quote from Tesla's patent: It states that the capacitive energy stored in the serial bifilar coil is 250,000 times greater then a single wire coil of the same inductance. I fail to see how adding a capacitor to a single wire coil can achieve this kind of result.

"Consider a single wire pancake coil with 1000 turns and 100 volts applied. There will be 0.1 volt difference between each consecutive layer in the coil. The capacitance of the coil will be mainly determined by the geometry (plate spacing) between each consecutive coil layer and is constant for a given coil. The capacitive energy stored in such a coil will be ~ E1 = 1/2 C V^2, or 1/2 C (0.1 ^2). On the other hand if you wind a similar bifilar pancake coil with 1000 turns (same total length of wire) and again apply 100 volts then the midpoint solder connection will be at 50 volts. Now the voltage difference between each consecutive layer in the coil has been increased from 0.1 volt to 50 volts. The capacitance of the coil determined by the geometry hasn't changed; However, the capacitive energy stored in such a bifilar wound coil will be ~ E2 = 1/2 C V^2, or 1/2 C (50 ^2). Or 250,000 times greater than the single wire wound coil of the same inductance".

No... that is not a quote from Tesla's Patent 512,340. Yet Again, we see how you misrepresent, misquote, misinterpret and even flat-out lie about the work of others. So we may only presume that this applies even more to your own work.

Here is the exact quote FROM TESLA'S PATENT #512,340 (emphasis mine):

Let A, Fig. 1, designate any given coil the spires or convolutions of which are wound upon and insulated from each other. Let it be assumed that the terminals of this coil show a potential difference of one hundred volts, and that there are one thousand convolutions; then considering any two contiguous points on adjacent convolutions let it be assumed that there will exist between them a potential difference of one-tenth of a volt. If now, as shown in Fig. 2, a conductor B be wound parallel with the conductor A and insulated from it, and the end of A be connected with the starting point of B, the aggregate length of the two conductors being such that the assumed number of convolutions or turns is the same, viz., one thousand, then the potential difference between any two adjacent points in A and B will be fifty volts, and as the capacity effect is proportionate to the square of this difference, the energy stored in the coil as a whole will now be two hundred and fifty thousand as great.

That large number applies ONLY to a coil with the input parameters as Tesla stated: A 1000 turn flat pancake coil with a voltage drop of 100 volts across it. Tesla is here just pulling the input numbers out of his hat, in order to illustrate his point. To claim from this that "any" series connected bifilar pancake coil has "250,000 times more energy storage" when that only applies to the specific parameters Tesla stated here -- is simply false, and in fact Tesla could have used different input numbers and come up with a wildly different final result.

Please construct such a coil, apply whatever voltage you need to get a 100 volt drop across it, and report your results.

Now apply the same calculation to a set of practical coils of, say, 200 turns with an _actual_ voltage drop across them of 2 volts and see what you get.

"The capacitance of the coil determined by the geometry hasn't changed" -- this language does not appear at all in the actual patent, and in fact is false. The whole point of Tesla's patent is that the "capacitance determined by the geometry" HAS changed.

Furthermore, another exact quote from Tesla's patent is as follows:

I have found that in every coil there exists a certain relation between its self-induction and capacity that permits a current of given frequency and potential to pass through it with no other opposition than that of ohmic resistance, or, in other words, as though it possessed no self-induction. This is due to the mutual relations existing between the special character of the current and the self-induction and capacity of the coil, the latter quantity being just capable of neutralizing the self-induction for that frequency. It is well-known that the higher the frequency or potential difference of the current the smaller the capacity required to counteract the self-induction; hence, in any coil, however small the capacity, it may be sufficient for the purpose stated if the proper conditions in other respects be secured. In the ordinary coils the difference of potential between adjacent turns or spires is very small, so that while they are in a sense condensers, they possess but very small capacity and the relations between the two quantities, self-induction and capacity, are not such as under any ordinary conditions satisfy the requirements herein contemplated, because the capacity relatively to the self-induction is very small.

In every coil... and in any coil.

[TinselKoala]

@Tinman,

I'm involved in serious testing.

(snip) 

When are you gonna get off the rag, huh Bub?

You earned another ROFL for that one.

[synchro1]

You earned another ROFL for that one.

@Tinselkoala,

So what if it's not an exact quote? It's the quote rephrased in modern English. Why not run another one of your banal constant current tests? You never once tried the kind of current interruption test I suggested to demonstrate the power of "Impulse Magnetization" smOky2 demonstrated with his PMH video links on the SMOT thread and Mags just got through showing us with his scope shots. What do you make of Magluvin's latest test results Mr. Webster? 

[tinman]

"As this forum is on the net,and my AC circuit showing inductive spikes is on this forum,then you have been shown 1 article on the net showing inductive spikes in an AC circuit.
Once again,see scope shot below,which is full of inductive spikes.

I see you are also avoiding the original circuit i posted,as that shows a spike being sent to a bifi coil.
Inductive kickback is a term,where as inductive spike is a description."


I see. Lol.  So you here in this thread on the net are the only one.  Like that counts.    ROTF

Avoiding the first circuit? I see no scope shot for that circuit. No vid, no nothing. Led lights up? Sweet and Yay. Good job. Hmm, no measurements? Well then you have shown nothing, as your basis for 'proving something' shows you are showing nothing there pretty much.  Yet when I see the scope shot that is in reference to your AC input circuit, you keep jumping me back to the first pulsed circuit, as if that is the circuit that the scope shot you have shown is from that circuit.    Dude its just getting weird man. Weird indeed.



"That video was no proof of anything."

Well then you got nothing from it. Some do, some dont. Thats what happens with age. Its happens to some. They may have a pill for that.    What it does show is something that you never knew of, and something other than you have ever shown. If you dont get that this is something that Tesla tells us in the patent that this coil can do compared to an single wire coil of the same wire, same total wire length , coil width, inner outer dia, then I guess thats your problem. That was the whole point of the vid was to show this one major difference between the 2 test coils that nobody here has shown yet. There will be more vids showing more of the details of what we can do with this.

Soo what? Do you think I am faking what I have claimed and have shown? Heck, your scope shot is so crammed together, how could we tell if those are inductive kickback spikes or just a mix of freq that the circuit provides from the ac input?  Yet you say its there, hiding in the thickness of it all. Cool. Oh, sweet 21.3mv rms and 46mv rms.  That must be your proof of something going on there.  Your the winner!   Sit back and have a beer! Your proof of something, what ever that is, has more merit than what I have shown!  lol Whatever dude. Make yourself a trophy and sit on it.




"Once again i ask--what is the difference between a bifi coil,and a single wound coil with added capacitance across it?
How much energy was sent to each coil?
How much energy was wasted as heat in each coil?
What was the load on the pickup coil?--none as far as i could see."


Where is yours??? Hypocrite are you?       If you cannot understand that for this first vid it was just to visually show an effect that hasnt been shown here before, then I say its just you being troll.  That vid demonstrates what tesla claimed with the bifilar coils.  This is just you here 'trying' to one up me with your circuit and a scope shot that you have not even explained yet, just a distraction, and you have to come back after the first circuit and ask why hasnt anyone talked about your circuit yet. lol   Thats funny.  I suppose you are not getting the attn you wanted.  Well I guess you need to do a bit better than what you have so far and maybe you wont have to come back and ask again, to make sure people are paying attn to you and your exciting circuit. You have the good luck with those tactics to get people interested.....




"So Mags,your video proves nothing at all--maybe the next one will be more informative."

Well then it is your loss.  And your showing of your circuits and scope shot 'prove' and show even less! If you cannot see that the single wire coil rejected the kicking coil spike as a normal coil should, and the bifilar coil accepted the spike and created a much better magnetic field output to the pickup coil than the single wire coil, then I guess you just cant.  Cool beans. I will continue on with it and you go and continue on with your, whatever it is your trying to show. 

You open a thread on your circuit and Ill open a thread on my idea and lets see whose thread gets more interest. I mean you are all 'Here, Here, look at my circuit and look at my scope shot!!'  Well then open a thread and do the do.  You stay in your thread and Ill stay in mine.  If you want to comment on me in your thread or anywhere else on thins forum, fine, just stay on your side of the fence and Ill stay on mine.


This all started with you sayin you thought I was on the right track and me asking you what that meant exactly. And here we are. You cant post a thing without poking me with nearly every post. Meanwhile you have shown didly, according to your terms of what proves something or not. I have explained everything that I intended to show 'so far' with what I have presented. You show 3 pics and zero explanation, no load or input measurements, etc. and I suppose we are just all suppose to guess at what you are getting at and expect commentary and praise..  Well so far Im at a total loss along with many others with your circuit as you have explained nothing...  I see Erfinder seems to know what your circuit may be doing and I bet he knows more about it than you.    Id bet on that.  He and I have talked for some time and he IS above you(including me and others here) in nearly all this stuff Maybe he can shed some light on it, being you dont.   He has opened my mind up to certain things that has helped me figure out a thing or two about a thing or two.  And I had thanked him for just about every conversation we had.



Mags

Hey Mags,your right,i shouldnt be making any negative comments towards your work.
So i here by apologise.


Brad