Rotating Magnetic Field's and Inductors.

[Jimboot]

Okay, here is my test device to verify if the earths magnetic field has an effect on our magnets.

I may not of mentioned this in the video demo but when my magnets are at rest they always line up across the 12 to 6 o'clock vertical position which happen to line up exactly with the floor tiles.

Link to video demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs862lNtfTc

I have nothing unusual to report which could be because my test device is different. However, if there is interactivity between the earths magnetic field and magnets, I'm quite confident my test device should be sensitive enough to detect it.
My test device also eliminates the possible participation of the twisted sewing thread. So we don't have to deal with string theories

Luc

very punny. Thanks Luc

[shylo]

I can't see it being a twisted string , because at the beginning the magnet was hanging perfectly still, and with the small spin it came back to rest in the same position.
I have used this test many times to find the poles of my magnets ,whichever side comes to rest facing north is what I call the south pole of my magnet.
I have never seen any of my magnets continue to spin like that, but I will try to replicate.
Thanks Woopy very interesting.

[Jimboot]

Yep confirmed in Melbourne Laurent runs ccw. Wtf is my equal but opposite reaction? photos and vids to follow. Fascinating guys.


The string I used was brand new. I tried to get some pics but these will have to do. Too big? Let me know. Thought you'd want the res. The twisted up string is what happens after a "run". It winds itself up basically. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ1VV6nWjMc


Also after winding itself up it wound down and then up again and now down.. anyway several minutes of spinning, from a half a turn. Better than any pulse motor Ive ever built

[tinman]

Repost from Lucs thread,as it belongs here as well.

I am basing my comments on what I actually see when a pulsing coil does a motor action and makes something move by exporting power to the outside world.   Are you "sure" those are the conditions that Poynt was talking about?  Perhaps he was referencing more of a static condition where the magnet does not move?  Perhaps it also depends on the relative directions of the magnet's field lines and the coil's field lines since magnetic fields are a vector quantity with magnitude and direction?

Well as we have all be discussing magnets moving in relation to stationary core's,then one would hope that he was talking about the same thing,if he was trying to explain as to what is happening.\

You need to think more than one or two steps deep for all this stuff.

It would appear as though i have thought deeper about this than what you and Poynt have.
I will talk about this some more toward the end of my reply to your post.

Magluvin referenced a book where a a coil with a ferrite core can be "preloaded" under the influence of an external magnetic field.  Considering in my example the two magnetic fields are 180 degrees diametrically opposed I think that will apply in this case.  It looks like when the coil first energizes it has to do the work to "clear out" the biasing of the core which is in the opposite direction that the coil wants to fire.  That sounds to me like it will increase the effective inductance - in this case.

Lol-amazing . Here i have been,trying to tell you this on two thread's !!for how long now!!?,and all i get from you and Poynt ,is that is incorrect.

On the other hand, if a static and unmoving magnet was "behind" the coil and biasing the core in the "right" direction, then when the coil was energized then in short order the core would get saturated and go "air core."  That sounds like it would reduce the effective inductance to me.  See?  You actually have to think these things through.

!!We!! have to thinks things through -->man,where have you been for the last two week's-->and what have myself and Luc been trying to tell you??.
We have to think things through Lol--is this some sort of joke MH?.

If we want to be more complete in our description it looks like there are several effects:

1) The coil when energized has to "clear out" the biasing of the core and then start biasing the core the "right" way.

As i have been trying to tell you and Poynt for weeks now.

2.1) When the magnet moves away, an EMF will be induced in the coil that is opposite that of the battery.

Not with my DUT,as it is the south field that is approaching the core of the coil that produces a north field at the end of the coil where the rotor is. But this has nothing to do with the reduction in current on the P/in side.--Detailed reason and evidence at bottom of this post--that you seem'd to have overlooked.

2.2) It's likely that the summation (integration) of the  "negative EMF" times the instantaneous current flow represents the energy that is put into the moving mass of the magnet - the motor action.

So once again we are being told that energy from the coil is transferred to the rotor,and at the same time the rotor returns this stored energy,!!BUT!! the I/ in drop's resulting in less P/in. Once again-some how,we have put energy into the rotor,and taken that energy back out(equal and opposite-minus losses due to windage and bearing friction of the rotor),but seem to have reduced the P/in .

3) Points 1) and 2) above will work to slow the increasing of the current flow when the coil is energized, which effectively makes it look like the coil is a higher inductance - and reduce the average power consumption of the coil.

Thats because the coils inductance has risen.

4) The distributed resistance of the wire of the coil is always there in the background dissipating energy and working to slow down the current flow.

Really?-->we shall see.

That's about all that I can think of and I intentionally ignored discussing the back spike.  I have never done any of this stuff in real life.  I am forced to try to visualize it in my mind.

And that is where you fail. The vital information to understanding what is happening,is right there in the back spike.  And you say we need to look further than just two step's,while you have totally ignored the very thing that is showing you that the induced reverse voltage across the coil from the moving magnet is not what is reducing the I/in-P/in. This !is! the case with Poynt's sim(that was suppose to simulate the results of my DUT,but did not),but not the case with my DUT.

You can investigate what is taking place to any level of detail that you want.What you can't do is cherry pick one thing and then blindly assume that it applies to all cases without thinking things through.    That seems to happen way too often around here.

I really cannot believe what i am reading in this whole post of your MH--it is truly unbelievable 
Quote: What you can't do is cherry pick one thing and then blindly assume that it applies to all cases without thinking things through.

And this is exactly what you have done throughout the ages you have been here on this forum. You blindly stick to what the books tell you,and everything must obey the !known! laws-->which are based only around current observations-->thats right MH-observations,and observations are not laws. With people like you trying to sway others that see different,is it any wonder that any new observations have never been see.

You tell us that !we! need to look at more than two thing;s,and yet here you admit to leaving out the one thing that provides all the answers--the inductive kickback current.

You insist that we cant just cherry pick one thing ,and blindly assume that it applies to all cases--and yet here you are saying,or trying to preach that everything must abide by these know laws--everything.

You clearly have the inability to stand back,and have an unbiased  go at working this out. You must stick to your known laws that are based only on observations so far. You preach books that are filled with information that is 100's of years old-->and we are suppose to be looking for the energy of the future.

Poynts quick little attempt at trying to replicate my DUT's test results failed. What he showed was !your! normal outcome,from your known !!laws!!. He succeeded in reducing the I/in-P/in,and as a result,he also reduced the P/out. Why did his results show this?. That is easy-the inductance of the coil remained the same when he switched on his tank circuit,that was suppose to represent a magnet moving toward and away from the core of the coil. As the inductance remained the same,then when the current was reduced,then so was the magnitude of the magnetic field built up around the coil/inductor. We know this is true,because the I/out-P/out also dropped<--this is the bit you chose to ignore,and your undoing to understanding that what i have been saying is true,and in the case of my DUT,it has nothing to do with the induced reverse voltage across the coil.

Look closely at the scope shots below MH-->do you see a reduction in the I/out P/out in my DUT/
No,in fact you see an increase,and this increase was measured by both the scope across the CVR,and also by the DMM's across the CVR-->both methods recommended by both you and Poynt.
So now all you have to do,is work out as to why or how we can have a reduction of current flowing into the coil,and yet have an increase of current flowing out of the coil--how is it that my results are opposite to that of what Poynt showed?. How can you decrease the current flowing into an inductor,and yet increase the current flowing out of the inductor during the kickback.

The only way to increase the current flowing out of the inductor(when the inductors wire and turn ratio remain the same),is to increase the magnitude of the magnetic field that is built up around the inductor. Now,how can that magnetic field be increased if we have just decreased the I/in-P/in of that inductor MH?. Well the answer is simple--the inductance of that inductor had to have increased. You wrote this your self MH--Quote: It looks like when the coil first energizes it has to do the work to "clear out" the biasing of the core which is in the opposite direction that the coil wants to fire. And this is exactly what happens with my DUT,and is exactly what i have been saying,and trying to tell you on two different thread for the past 3 weeks.
Again-->As the south field of the magnet on my rotor approaches the core of the coil,it induces that field into the core. When the coil fires,it fires a !!north!! field at the end of the coil that is closest to the rotor.  You just said exactly what i have been saying for over three week's,and during that time,you !and Poynt! are trying to tell us all here that it is this !!cannot be seen!! reverse voltage across the coil that is the reason for the reduction in current draw during the ON time. Well in Poynt's Sym case,that is correct,as the I/out also went down<-- Your lenz's law.
But in my case,we have a situation where the I/in went down,but the I/out went up. If what you and Poynt are saying were true with my DUT,then we would have seen the same results Poynt showed,in that when the I/in was reduced,then the I/out would have also been reduced--but it was not-it increased.

So i hope you take some notice of your own words,and go and have a closer look at what is happening with my DUT. Try and be unbiased for once in your life MH.

Re-posted on my thread.


Brad

[tinman]

Yep confirmed in Melbourne Laurent runs ccw. Wtf is my equal but opposite reaction? photos and vids to follow. Fascinating guys.


The string I used was brand new. I tried to get some pics but these will have to do. Too big? Let me know. Thought you'd want the res. The twisted up string is what happens after a "run". It winds itself up basically. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ1VV6nWjMc


Also after winding itself up it wound down and then up again and now down.. anyway several minutes of spinning, from a half a turn. Better than any pulse motor Ive ever built

Jimboot
Looking at your pic's,and the twist direction of the string,the magnets in your video were spinning in the correct direction to untwist the string.
One easy way to verify what is going on,is to lower your spinning magnets so as they are about 1mm of the floor. Then let the magnets spin. If the magnets touch the floor after some time of spinning,then you know the string was unwinding,and getting longer. If the distance between the magnets and floor increases,then you and woopy will kicking back on a tropical island in no time flat.

I believe that what you and woopy are seeing,is the force of gravity unwinding the string--nothing more.
I would love to be wrong on this though lol.

Brad