Moon Walkers.

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=16359.msg472372#msg472372 date=1453872631

If, when you discuss this topic, you could put a coherent sentence together that makes sense and demonstrates you are aware of what the issues are, it would make a huge difference.

Dido

The impact energy of an identical mass hitting the Earth or the moon will be the same if the two impact velocities are the same.  It's rocket science.

But they are not the same-are they MH. Lets have a look at what you said.

Because the 170-pound astronaut and the 120-pound space suit form a 290-pound "ground thumper" that hits the ground for every bounce.  That makes the ground shake, a small portion of the energy from the bounce makes the flag pole rattle.

Day in/day out,you insist on people here making accurate measurements,and posting accurate data,and yet look what you posted above to try and bring some sort of validity to your earth quake theory. The reality is MH,the combined weight on the moon is 47.85lb. You were over 600% out with your weights.Then you say--

And the frustrating part is that you never even considered this possibility, just like many of the other poor hapless moon conspiracy theorists.  They desperately need that "dummies" book.
The answer to that one is staring you in the face.

It was not considered because it is just plain wrong,and stupid.
And then once again-even after i corrected you,you go and make the same mistake again--

The astronaut and space suit with a combined mass of about 130 kilograms hitting the ground from a jump will impart an impulse of a certain amount of energy into the ground.  How much energy is irrelevant, the only thing that counts is that that impulse of energy traveled through the lunar surface and made the pole and the flag attached to the pole shake.  It's staring you in the face.

No MH--NO. The combined weight is 21.45kg's(now that you have gone metric),not 130kg's as you are trying to imply. And once again,the answer is staring me in the face lol.Then once again--

The moon's gravity has "nothing to do with it" because you can ignore it and still make a valid case.  Even if there is no gravity, if a 130 kg mass hits the ground at a certain speed there will be a big thud.

No no MH,it is a 21.45 kg mass hitting the ground,and in slow motion like all the video's from NASA show. The impact force will be 600% less than what you are trying to peddle.

And again--

I will repeat to you that you bringing up the equivalent weight of the astronaut in the moon's gravitational field is ridiculous because the important thing to realize is that it's the combined mass of the astronaut and his space suit that counts and not his weight.  If you can't acknowledge this then you are just being ridiculous.

Have you completely lost your marbles MH?
The mass may be the same on the moon as it is on earth,but the weight is not due to the lower gravity on the moon. So where will this mass make a bigger impact when dropped from say 1/2 meter? Will the impact energy be greater on earth or on the moon?. If you cant work that out,then you had better throw away those books.--and you say im being ridiculous

The answer was staring me in the face was it MH?. But you turned tail on what you claimed to be the only logical explanation,and felt so strongly that your earth/moon quake man was what was causing the flag to waver. PW pulled the string,and you moved-moved away from your theory that you deem'd so sound, in a flash-->without even bothering to take the time to see if PW's explanation was plausible.

I hope i never have some one like you watching my back if we ever have to go to war.

If you disagree with what PW said about the sublimation of the ice then make your case.

I will leave this for the next post. Did you even bother to do some research of your own MH?

[MileHigh]

Yes, Brad, you have serious issues with communicating properly.  Stuff remains locked up inside your head and you don't express it properly and just blindly assume that what you think the debate is about is what is locked up inside your head.  Even if somebody else raised the issue, it doesn't matter, and like magic you expect everybody else to just be able to read your mind and figure out what you are really talking about.  Everybody is supposed to have a Secret Brad Decoder Ring.

The problem is that the real world doesn't work like that and you have to get with a program to learn to stop inventing your own version of a debate while keeping it locked up in your head.  You have to start learning to not change the parameters of a debate in your mind, and to express yourself properly.

Here is what is locked up inside your head:  It's a grade 10 Physics question.  Two objects of the same mass of 130 kilograms are dropped from 1/2 meter onto the ground.  One mass is in the Earth's gravitational field, and the other mass is the moon's gravitational field.  Calculate the final velocities of the two objects, how much time it takes for each object to fall, and the amount of kinetic energy in each object the moment before hitting the ground.

That is a trivial problem and I solved it in grade 10.

The problem is that is NOT what the debate is about, period.

I simply said that an astronaut and his space suit hitting the surface of the moon could create a localized tremor in the surface material and that could make the flag move.

I was NOT making any reference to a grade 10 physics problem.  I was NOT concerned with the final velocity.  I was NOT concerned with the different gravitational accelerations between the Earth and the moon.

The only relevant point is that it is the MASS of the astronaut and space suit that determines the energy in the ground thump, and NOT the weight.  You clearly still don't understand that point.

I intentionally switched from pounds to kilograms because pounds is a wishy-washy English unit that can mean weight or mass, whereas kilograms is universally understood to mean MASS ONLY.  Clearly you were not aware of that, as in, "The combined weight is 21.45kg's(now that you have gone metric)."

Here is another "lost your marbles" quote from you, "The mass may be the same on the moon as it is on earth,but the weight is not due to the lower gravity on the moon."

Here is another "lost your marbles" quote, "The reality is MH,the combined weight on the moon is 47.85lb. You were over 600% out with your weights."

How many times do I have to tell you that it's the MASS of the astronaut and spacesuit hitting the surface of the moon and NOT the weight that determines the magnitude of the thump?   The formula is "Energy = 1/2 MASS x Velocity-squared."   Let it sink into your head.

For good measure, another "lost your marbles" quote, "No no MH,it is a 21.45 kg mass hitting the ground."

[tinman]

Do you even bother to check the references I provide for you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTL86Ua8UAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6dZVM1UuwQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmVxSFnjYCA&list=PLMu_JGF2rQtd7QSZwWBz_pNzThMg2_E0_

etc. etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNWs-vlIhdM

[MileHigh]

To sound coherent you can NEVER discuss "kilograms" and "equivalent kilograms in the Moon's gravity."  It makes NO SENSE and you are just showing your ignorance.  This is never ever done.  The term "kilograms weight" which is what you were using sometimes in your discussion is universally frowned upon and basically never used.

Kilograms are MASS and the mass does not change ever, irrespective of the strength of the gravity field.  When you want to discuss the equivalent weight then you use Newtons.  A mass of 1 kilogram weighs X Newtons in the Earth's gravity and Y Newtons in the moon's gravity.

[tinman]

Yes, Brad, you have serious issues with communicating properly.  Stuff remains locked up inside your head and you don't express it properly and just blindly assume that what you think the debate is about is what is locked up inside your head.  Even if somebody else raised the issue, it doesn't matter, and like magic you expect everybody else to just be able to read your mind and figure out what you are really talking about.  Everybody is supposed to have a Secret Brad Decoder Ring.

The problem is that the real world doesn't work like that and you have to get with a program to learn to stop inventing your own version of a debate while keeping it locked up in your head.  You have to start learning to not change the parameters of a debate in your mind, and to express yourself properly.

Here is what is locked up inside your head:  It's a grade 10 Physics question.  Two objects of the same mass of 130 kilograms are dropped from 1/2 meter onto the ground.  One mass is in the Earth's gravitational field, and the other mass is the moon's gravitational field.  Calculate the final velocities of the two objects, how much time it takes for each object to fall, and the amount of kinetic energy in each object the moment before hitting the ground.

That is a trivial problem and I solved it in grade 10.

The problem is that is NOT what the debate is about, period.

I simply said that an astronaut and his space suit hitting the surface of the moon could create a localized tremor in the surface material and that could make the flag move.

I was NOT making any reference to a grade 10 physics problem.  I was NOT concerned with the final velocity.  I was NOT concerned with the different gravitational accelerations between the Earth and the moon.

The only relevant point is that it is the MASS of the astronaut and space suit that determines the energy in the ground thump, and NOT the weight.  You clearly still don't understand that point.

I intentionally switched from pounds to kilograms because pounds is a wishy-washy English unit that can mean weight or mass, whereas kilograms is universally understood to mean MASS ONLY.  Clearly you were not aware of that, as in, "The combined weight is 21.45kg's(now that you have gone metric)."

Here is another "lost your marbles" quote from you, "The mass may be the same on the moon as it is on earth,but the weight is not due to the lower gravity on the moon."

Here is another "lost your marbles" quote, "The reality is MH,the combined weight on the moon is 47.85lb. You were over 600% out with your weights."

How many times do I have to tell you that it's the MASS of the astronaut and spacesuit hitting the surface of the moon and NOT the weight that determines the magnitude of the thump?   The formula is "Energy = 1/2 MASS x Velocity-squared."   Let it sink into your head.

For good measure, another "lost your marbles" quote, "No no MH,it is a 21.45 kg mass hitting the ground."

MH-you have finally flipped your lid.
Equal and opposite forces MH. You cannot get more out than you put in.
Fact-less energy is required to lift the same mass to the same height than is required here on earth.
Fact-less energy is returned upon impact on the moon,than it is here on earth.
Fact-the reason for this is,although the mass remains the same,the weight dose not
Fact- The mass equivalent in KG's on the moon is 21.45
!NASA! fact--the hammer and feather fall at the same speed,but the hammer will impact the ground with more energy-Why?--the feather is lighter.
Fact-dropped from the same height,the hammer will impact the ground with more force than it will dropped from the same height on the moon.

You have completely lost the plot if you think that the weight changes nothing,regardless of what the mass is. Not only that,but your earth quake theory is utter rubbish-provable beyond any doubt here on earth where greater impacts are made--due to the greater weight

After i have put PW's theory in the bin,i suspect you will return to your earth quake theory