Why Doesn't A Magnet 'Feel' Like A Gyroscope?

[Eighthman]

I think it is surprising that we can discuss this question openly - without (apparently) any clear answer from mainstream science - and it concerns a simple question about physics. What the heck else is out there, hidden behind math and academic authority?


I wonder if we could figure out these forces as forms of motion, who knows where it would lead? It is believed that that single remaining electron spin per atom creates the crushing force of a big expensive neodymium magnet ......... but the gyro movement?  Nope, not there.

[MileHigh]

You guys are all talking about this stuff but nobody is attempting to calculate any possible gyroscopic effect.  How do you know if a magnet is supposed or not supposed to feel like a gyroscope if you have no idea how large the effect is supposed to be?  For all you know it is there but the magnitude of the gyroscopic effect is insignificant.  Without attempting to crunch some numbers the discussion is meaningless.

[MileHigh]

Here's a standard explanation:


http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Core/Physical_Chemistry/Quantum_Mechanics/09._The_Hydrogen_Atom/Atomic_Theory/Electrons_in_Atoms/Electron_Spin


And the problem remains.  You get a magnetic field from a net (single) spinning electron.............but why not gyroscopic motion of the magnet? If you have two opposite spins, they cancel out and no field.   Weird.  I think Dewey Larson wrote a book in which he tried to explain all physics with forms of motion. To make matters worse, if I understand it correctly, quantum physicists try to deny that spin is real!

From a quick scan of that link that is not an explanation.  The "electron spin" that they are talking about is not the same as the possible gyroscopic effect from an electron spinning in orbit around a nucleus.

[sm0ky2]

oy veh!


the 'spin' is 90-degrees to the orbit, which is in the same vector as the magnetic polarization.
an electron's spin has very little effect on the magnetic moment.
only on the trajectory of the orbit, and subsequently, the vector of the NEXT magnetic moment....
When the orbits are aligned, this is already determined.

the cumulative 'spins' of the outer-shell electrons, in a magnetized mass,
are coherent with the stable (or slowly decaying) orbital trajectory.
meaning, the spin of an electron, at any given moment, is such that its' trajectory follows the orbit shared by its neighbors.
It is pre-determined, from the point of magnetization, until it stops being a magnet.
Within an accuracy of ~ the quantum factor.
The spins are not aligned with each other, but rather they are UNalligned, in such a way that the
orbits can synchronize without collisions.

It is the orbit, that creates the magnetic moment.
similar to induction through a single loop of wire.

the gyroscopic effect of a single electrons' orbit is so tiny,.
it does not even effect the mass of the atom itself.
much less the cumulative mass of trillions of atoms in a magnet.

take your gyroscope, and attach it to (not a stick) a giant redwood tree.
and see if that tiny gyro will prohibit the massive tree from blowing in the wind.

to simulate this, you need not two gyros on a stick,
but rather several million tiny gyros, on top and bottom of a giant stone tabletop.
then lift this tabletop with a crane, and swing it around to do your tests.

If you want to see this on a smaller scale,
take two gyros, side by side, on a spinning surface. like a turntable.
attach a counterweight to one spot around each gyro, and start them spinning so that the weights are 180-degrees out of phase.
(one weight passing through the center, while the other is swinging around the outside)
rotate them in the same direction.

Now take two more weighted gyros, and place them 90-degrees to the first two,
but at a different radial distance from the center of rotation.
either closer to or further away from the center, than the first pair.

Compare this to a single weighted gyro placed in the center of rotation.

now, repeat these steps with additional weighted gyros placed below the turntable.

Now, take the center axis of rotation, and change it across different planes,
and examine how this changes the net force experienced from the system of gryos.
For instance, if there were an axle placed horizontally through the turntable,
that allowed the entire thing to rotate in the vertical plane.

What happened to the force you saw with the single gyro?
and why?

The thing you have to keep in mind, is that your gyroscope is balanced.
not a single unit orbiting, but an entire solid mass in rotation.
the counterweight makes the force analogy more similar to the electron in orbit.

[verpies]

Weird.  I think Dewey Larson wrote a book in which he tried to explain all physics with forms of motion.

Yes, and his explanation is the only that makes sense to me.  The user "bperet" on that forum, explains it the best.

To make matters worse, if I understand it correctly, quantum physicists try to deny that spin is real!

The indeed do.

Take one gyroscope and get it spinning.  Get another and spin it in the other direction.  Neither one wants to twist.  Stick one at one end of a stick and the other at the other end of the stick.  I think you now get a vertical stick that doesn't want to turn horizontal. I think they don't cancel out and get rid of the gyroscopic behavior.

Correct.