MH's ideal coil and voltage question

[tinman]

Yes.
It is interesting to consider, which way the energy flows when the pump rotates against that torque.

In the real world,the motor driving the pump would see a higher than startup load,and the energy contained in the flow of water would be converted into heat,by way of the motor now working harder to slow and stop that flow of water,which also is being pushed by the inertia of the water wheel(our inductor).


Brad

[tinman]

Here we go again.  Who said that ideal voltages have to be fixed and can't change in time?  It's an ideal voltage, I can say it does whatever I want it to do.  In my second example I state that the ideal voltage v = 20*t^2.  So the ideal voltage increases in value proportional to the square of the time.  There is nothing stopping me from saying that.

What about your function generator when you set it to a triangle wave and you connect it to your circuit?  Supposing that the triangle wave is somewhat attenuated especially at the peaks because of the load on it from the circuit.  Well, what if I said that my "ideal voltage source" had an identical waveform to the somewhat attenuated triangle wave output from your function generator?  Under those static load conditions then the ideal voltage source that clones your function generator output and the function generator output are indistinguishable.  That means you can look at the output from your function generator as being a time-variable ideal voltage source as long as the load condition remains static and unchanging.

Oh here we go.
The MH paradox is kicking in again.

An ideal voltage source dose not change in time--how many times to you have to be told this?.
You have an ideal voltage source that !you! change in steps over time. Each time period in your question has a set voltage value that dose not change in time. Poynt also is in agreement with this.

Here we once again have MH doing the old !side step!,and adding more confusion to the discussion.


Brad

[tinman]

Oh, C'mon! - these were rhetorical questions.  I was not seeking answers to them.  I was provoking some thinking.

And dont ever stop doing that verpies,as it would seem that there needs to be more of it.

Of course, but this needs to be stated explicitly, since apparently some people are under the impression, that an ideal voltage source is a constant voltage source

An ideal voltage source will deliver the voltage selected by the user,for as long as the user decides to change the voltage value. It will deliver the selected value over any load,and will not dissipate energy,due to the non existence of an internal resistance.

An ideal voltage source dose not,and never will exist.
It is an !oxy moron!.
If an ideal voltage source can deliver an ideal voltage across any load,what happens when it is placed across an ideal short as the load?--this would be the same as clipping the two output leads from your ideal voltage source together.


Brad

[tinman]

C'mon yourself. Your question about whether MH knows what an ideal voltage source is, is absolute bunk.

Well he dosnt know what a shorted ideal inductor is,so is verpies remark that far off?
MH adds confusion to this thread ,by instating his later test mixed in with the original question.

After that it seemed you were the one that was lost. I encourage you to avoid the so-called rhetorical questions, and instead try to help Brad understand why his thinking on this affair is a little off the tracks.

And who is it that has tested this very circuit,that can say that !i! am lost ?.

Brad

[tinman]

So, just to be clear here...

I can have an ideal voltage source that puts out 4 volts @ 1 amp but then, after 2 seconds, puts out 10 volts at .5 amps
and later, after 20 seconds puts out 2,000 volts @ 500 amps?

Do we need ideal circuit breakers that do not blow when working with this ideal voltage source?

Honestly, this just completely blows my mind that you (meaning anyone) can just make up some hypothetical device and then assign it ANY operational parameters that you want and then, do an "experiment" with this made up device and then claim that something real was learned?

This sounds like the same crap that Mythbusters might use.  I just listened to an audio book that mentioned the Mythbuster's show where they "proved" that Archimedes did not have a death ray.  They tried it, it did not work so this was PROOF!

Well, some boys over at MIT did a replication and....boom!  It worked as it was supposed to.  Those idiots at Mythbusters were ALWAYS changing parameters and then claiming devices to be "impossible".  So, they could not find a mirror large enough so, they substituted a bar of soap instead...didn't work...see?  Impossible! (Of course I exaggerate here a bit, but not too much)

I apologize...I just can not get my head around making crap up to fit your theory, and when your theory works claiming a victory.

I must be getting old.

Bill

Your not getting old Bill--you are spot on,and we see this many times.

The biggest problem with !!some!! of the EE guy's,is they are programmed to make everything fit the way it should,as they have learned.

Myth busters indeed lol,did you see there attempt at the Bedini SSG lol. Now im no bedini fan,but these guys completely bungled that one up--and these guy's(the myth busters)get paid a fortune for there idiotic tests.

You will very often(in fact ,im sure you have many times already) see this sort of thing happen,where accurate descriptions are taken,and re arranged to fit in with what should happen,and how something is needed to work.

The fact is,an ideal voltage dose not !!vary!! over time. An ideal voltage will produce a steady voltage value across any load presented to it,until such time as that value is changed by the user. No load will cause a variance in the voltage from the ideal voltage source--only the user can change the voltage value.

For MH to state that the voltage can vary in time is incorrect,as we would see that as being like the current value varying in time with a steady slope. An ideal voltage can increase or decrease over time in step's selected by the user,not by the load varying the voltage as it can in a real world voltage source.


Brad