Free Energy from Electromagnetic Wave Fields

[telecom]

When you are done with digesting the material, then please try to summarize and explain the working mechanism of the wave machine as a series of coupled torsional oscillators. You may also perform a google search about coupled oscillators, or coupled pendulums to give you an idea how to attack the problem.

The biggest amplitude is at the point of the most twisted wire, and a vise versa.
So the energy can be determined from the amount of work which takes to
perform the twisting.
It equals F x S, where F is the twisting force, and S is the distance of the
arch of the applied force.
The total for the wave would be the  integral of these over the length of the wave.
This is how much I could extend myself to figure it out.
Zoltan, I think we all be greatly benefitting from your input at this point.
Regards

[ZL]

The biggest amplitude is at the point of the most twisted wire, and a vise versa. So the energy can be determined from the amount of work which takes to perform the twisting.

We want to know the energy content of a half sine wave on the wave machine, independently of its source. We don't need to know who created the wave with what amount of invested work. Knowing this wouldn't be of much use anyway if the wave we observe has suffered significant attenuation, especially if it has been also reflected from an impedance mismatch (like that of the open end of the transmission line).

Here is what we know: the properties of the transmission line (given by the manufacturer), the amplitude, wave length, and shape of the wave (sinusoid). That's all. From this we should be able to calculate the energy content of the wave.

It equals F x S, where F is the twisting force, and S is the distance of the arch of the applied force.

The formula for calculating the work W=F*s is correct, but when we are dealing with rotation then engineers don't use such notation. In case of rotation the work (or energy) is calculated as W=M*theta where M is a torque (M=F x r, vector product - where r is the radial distance of the attacking force from the axis) and theta is the angle of rotation (in radians).

The total for the wave would be the integral of these over the length of the wave.

This is partially true. First of all, in case of the wave machine, for the calculation of energy content, we can break it up into small discrete segments, and treat each segment as a simple torsion pendulum. Each rod with its piece of central torsion wire is a single segment. Therefore, instead of integration, we can simply use a summation to add together the energy contents of all the segments.

But what you have calculated with W=F*s or better with W=M*theta is only the potential energy stored in the elastic distortion of the wire (like in a spring), which is only half of the story. The torsion pendulum has got kinetic energy as well, which has to be added to the potential energy in order to get the total energy content.

Let's summarize what we have figured out so far. The wave machine demonstrates the propagation of torsional waves in an elastic rod or wire as a transmission line. In order to let us see the wave movement, it uses balanced rods periodically attached to the torsion wire. The rods are either soldered to the torsion wire, or fixed to it with other techniques in such a way that they don't slip. The rods serve dual purpose; they slow the wave down, and they also convert the torsion into translation to make the amplitude more visible. The wave machine can be analyzed as a series of individual torsion pendulums all connected together.

Although the shape of the pulse on the attached photo superposition.png in reply #56 of this thread is not exactly sinusoid, for the sake of simplicity let's calculate the energy content of one half of a sine wave. Let's assume that the wavelength is λ, and there are 21 rods (20 torsion wire segments) within the half wavelength. The amplitude of vertical displacement of the wave is A, which corresponds to an angular rotation of the rod #10 in the center of the half sinusoid theta_max. Thus we have 20 complete mini torsion pendulums within this length λ/2, which contain the wave pulse and its energy. The displacement of the first and last bar is zero. Let us assume that the angular rotation of each rod in our half sinusoid can be calculated according to the equation attached below (0<=n<=20 is the number of the examined rod). The first rod is #0, the second rod is #1, the central rod is #10, and the last rod is #20.

Now all you have to do is calculate the total energy content of the wave, by adding together the energies of all 20 individual mini torsion pendulums that contain the pulse. Please give us the formula that contains both potential and kinetic energies, and can be used for this calculation. This should not be too difficult for you since you have said that you are a mechanical engineer, and I have also given a number of references that discuss torsion pendulums in detail. You can also dust off your old textbooks and refresh your memory about the subject. Then we can demonstrate its use on a specific example, to calculate the numerical value of a specific wave pulse.

Finally we will be able return to the original subject of analyzing whether we can gain excess energy from the superposition of two waves that propagate in opposite directions or not.

Finally here are two very useful documents for those who are seriously interested in the practical understanding and building a wave machine:

Wave Motion Demonstrator - Instruction Manual
ftp://ftp.pasco.com/support/Documents/English/SE/SE-9600/SE-9600%20Manual.pdf

Coupled Torsion Pendulum
http://physics.unipune.ernet.in/~phyed/24.3/24.3_Pathare.pdf

[telecom]

Here is what we know: the properties of the transmission line (given by the manufacturer), the amplitude, wave length, and shape of the wave (sinusoid). That's all. From this we should be able to calculate the energy content of the wave.

The formula for calculating the work W=F*s is correct, but when we are dealing with rotation then engineers don't use such notation. In case of rotation the work (or energy) is calculated as W=M*theta where M is a torque (M=F x r, vector product - where r is the radial distance of the attacking force from the axis) and theta is the angle of rotation (in radians).

Ok, understood.

This is partially true. First of all, in case of the wave machine, for the calculation of energy content, we can break it up into small discrete segments, and treat each segment as a simple torsion pendulum. Each rod with its piece of central torsion wire is a single segment. Therefore, instead of integration, we can simply use a summation to add together the energy contents of all the segments.

Yes, for sure, this will simplify things!

But what you have calculated with W=F*s or better with W=M*theta is only the potential energy stored in the elastic distortion of the wire (like in a spring), which is only half of the story. The torsion pendulum has got kinetic energy as well, which has to be added to the potential energy in order to get the total energy content.

This part makes me puzzled - it probably involves the period of the above pendulum.

Let's summarize what we have figured out so far. The wave machine demonstrates the propagation of torsional waves in an elastic rod or wire as a transmission line. In order to let us see the wave movement, it uses balanced rods periodically attached to the torsion wire. The rods are either soldered to the torsion wire, or fixed to it with other techniques in such a way that they don't slip. The rods serve dual purpose; they slow the wave down, and they also convert the torsion into translation to make the amplitude more visible. The wave machine can be analyzed as a series of individual torsion pendulums all connected together.

Although the shape of the pulse on the attached photo superposition.png in reply #56 of this thread is not exactly sinusoid, for the sake of simplicity let's calculate the energy content of one half of a sine wave. Let's assume that the wavelength is λ, and there are 21 rods (20 torsion wire segments) within the half wavelength. The amplitude of vertical displacement of the wave is A, which corresponds to an angular rotation of the rod #10 in the center of the half sinusoid theta_max. Thus we have 20 complete mini torsion pendulums within this length λ/2, which contain the wave pulse and its energy. The displacement of the first and last bar is zero. Let us assume that the angular rotation of each rod in our half sinusoid can be calculated according to the equation attached below (0<=n<=20 is the number of the examined rod). The first rod is #0, the second rod is #1, the central rod is #10, and the last rod is #20.

Now all you have to do is calculate the total energy content of the wave, by adding together the energies of all 20 individual mini torsion pendulums that contain the pulse. Please give us the formula that contains both potential and kinetic energies, and can be used for this calculation. This should not be too difficult for you since you have said that you are a mechanical engineer, and I have also given a number of references that discuss torsion pendulums in detail. You can also dust off your old textbooks and refresh your memory about the subject. Then we can demonstrate its use on a specific example, to calculate the numerical value of a specific wave pulse.

Honestly, Zoltan, you are overestimating my limited mental faculties.
I would rather prefer to go the route of the lesser resistance, and have it
already done for us by some superior mind.
In any case, it will take some time for me to digest all this not very
intuitive info.

Finally we will be able return to the original subject of analyzing whether we can gain excess energy from the superposition of two waves that propagate in opposite directions or not.
But I'm very interested in this subject anyway, it really makes me think hard.

Finally here are two very useful documents for those who are seriously interested in the practical understanding and building a wave machine:

Wave Motion Demonstrator - Instruction Manual
ftp://ftp.pasco.com/support/Documents/English/SE/SE-9600/SE-9600%20Manual.pdf

Coupled Torsion Pendulum
http://physics.unipune.ernet.in/~phyed/24.3/24.3_Pathare.pdf

[telecom]

Hi Zoltan,
just want to expand on your remarkable formula.
According to what you've described,
The potential energy of the wave should be the
sum from 1 to 20 for the each torsion bar element..
Ptotal =SUM [1-20]( T x Q )
where Q is calculated according to your formula.
Regards

[ZL]

Honestly, Zoltan, you are overestimating my limited mental faculties.

Overestimating? I was expecting form you to be able to calculate these things, because you wrote me that you are a mechanical engineer who has got his diploma from a university. Calculating the energy content of a sine wave on the wave machine supposed to be a simple routine task for a mechanical engineer. Now it seems obvious that your claim about your qualification was a porky, which I don't appreciate.

I would rather prefer to go the route of the lesser resistance, and have it already done for us by some superior mind.

That is fine, but in that case you are not doing any FE research. You are expecting from the "superior mind" to do the research for you, find the solution, and give you the blueprint of a developed FE machine, and all this for free. Ahem... don't you think that your expectations are unrealistic and selfish? If you want to do your own research in this subject then you have to learn the required basics first. If you think it is too difficult for you, then you can still contribute to the cause by supporting the research of those who can do it. If you are not willing to contribute even this little, then you will have to wait until Santa brings you a present that you can replicate.

Perhaps this is a good point to hibernate this thread again for a while. The rest of the explanations about the line of thought we have discussed here will be shared with those who actively support my research. If anybody is interested, you can contact me via the contact form on my website:

https://feprinciples.wordpress.com/contact/

I respond to everybody (at least to their first email). If you would not get any response within a week, then something is wrong. Either try again, or let me know in a post here on this thread.